[governance] Inputs for synthesis paper

[Jeffrey A. Williams]

Ian, Milton and all,

  Arn't we getting a bit far afeald here?  I don't see womens rights
associated with any form of an "Internet bill of Rights"...

Ian Peter wrote:

> Well there might be different emphases in a womens rights movement
> Milton and I don’t think we need to demand the emphases be exactly
> the same. But that and many other issues here can wait till another
> day.
>
> The important thing is that we seem to agree on the main thrust of the
> submission. I’ve enjoyed seeing the differing points of view here
> but perhaps now we need to collectively concentrate on getting the
> text together – next week the ongoing debate can happily continue.
>
> Ian Peter
>
> Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd
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> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu]
>
> Sent: 09 September 2008 08:17
> To:governance at lists.cpsr.org;Ian Peter
> Subject: RE: [governance] Inputs for synthesis paper
>
>      -------------------------------------------------------------
>      From:Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
>
>      Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:42 PM
>      To:governance at lists.cpsr.org
>      Subject: RE: [governance] Inputs for synthesis paper
>
>      So womens rights is a collective right? Indigenous land
>      rights is a collective right?
>
>      No, unless you believe that the rights of woman are
>      completely different from the rights of men. In other words,
>      patriarchal (or matriarchal) societies that assign superior
>      or different rights based on gender believe in collective
>      rights. Liberal societies that afford men, women and the
>      transgendered equal rights based ontheir status as
>      individuals are based on individual rights. So now tell me
>      where you count yourself.  ;-)
>
>      Indigenous land rights are more complicated. An
>      individualist approach would certainly recognize the ability
>      of groups (e.g., publicly owned corporations or even
>      political communities) to own land, but see these as
>      extensions of individual rights (as Tapani pointed out).
>      However, the property rights of a very different culture may
>      not be recognizable to a modern legal regime, and
>      vice-versa, and so it may be better to handle those
>      situations as a kind of special sovereignty. However, a
>      collectivist approach to property rights can just as easily
>      work against indigenous minorities as for them. I am sure
>      you know the history.
>
>      But for the sake of this submission, we obviously need to
>      reflect differing opinions. Can’t we find a simple way
>      forward here? Isn’t it as simple as a statement such as
>      “while differing opinions on individual and collective
>      rights exist” within the context of the general request,
>      which is to make rights a main theme for Cairo? (which
>      doesn’t seem to be disputed)
>
>      That's what I thought my original edit did. I'd be happy to
>      delete the line about how state-provided internet access
>      might be used to violate other rights, even though I think
>      the point is true and salient, I recognize that it may be a
>      bit too in-your-face.
>
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