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Ian, Milton and all,
<p> Arn't we getting a bit far afeald here? I don't see womens
rights
<br>associated with any form of an "Internet bill of Rights"...
<p>Ian Peter wrote:
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><font face="Arial"><font color="#000080"><font size=-1>Well
there might be different emphases in a womens rights movement Milton and
I don’t think we need to demand the emphases be exactly the same. But
that and many other issues here can wait till another day.</font></font></font><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><font face="Arial"><font color="#000080"><font size=-1>The
important thing is that we seem to agree on the main thrust of the submission.
I’ve enjoyed seeing the differing points of view here but perhaps now
we need to collectively concentrate on getting the text together – next
week the ongoing debate can happily continue.</font></font></font><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span>
<div class="MsoAutoSig"><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#000080"><font size=+0>Ian
Peter</font></font></font></span></st1:PersonName><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><font color="#000080"><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=+0>Ian
Peter</span></st1:PersonName><span style='color:navy'></font></font> and
Associates Pty Ltd</font><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#000080"><font size=+0>PO
Box <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street
w:st="on">10670 Adelaide St</st1:Street><st1:City w:st="on">Brisbane</st1:City></st1:address>
4000</font></font></font><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:navy'><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#000080"><font size=+0>Australia</font></font></font></span></st1:place></st1:country-region><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#000080"><font size=+0>Tel
(+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773</font></font></font><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#000080"><font size=+0>www.ianpeter.com</font></font></font><o:p></o:p></span>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>From:</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'></b>
Milton L Mueller [<A HREF="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mailto:mueller@syr.edu</A>]</font></font></div>
<br><span style='font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</span></b>
09 September 2008 08:17</font></font>
<br><span style='font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>To:</span><st1:PersonName w:st="on"></b>governance@lists.cpsr.org</st1:PersonName>;<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Ian
Peter</font></font></st1:PersonName>
<br><span style='font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</span></b>
RE: [governance] Inputs for synthesis paper</font></font></span><o:p></o:p>
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12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>From:</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><st1:PersonName
w:st="on"></b>Ian
Peter</st1:PersonName> [<A HREF="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com</A>]</font></font></div>
<br><span style='font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</span></b>
Monday, September 08, 2008 3:42 PM</font></font>
<br><span style='font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>To:</span><st1:PersonName w:st="on"></b>governance@lists.cpsr.org</font></font></st1:PersonName>
<br><span style='font-weight:bold'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</span></b>
RE: [governance] Inputs for synthesis paper</font></font></span><o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><font face="Arial"><font color="#000080"><font size=-1>So
womens rights is a collective right? Indigenous land rights is a collective
right? </font></font></font></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'></span><o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>No,
unless you believe that the rights of woman are completely different from
the rights of men. In other words, patriarchal (or matriarchal) societies
that assign superior or different rights based on gender believe in collective
rights. Liberal societies that afford men, women and the transgendered
equal rights based ontheir status as individuals are based on individual
rights. So now tell me where you count yourself. ;-)</font></font></font></span><o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Indigenous
land rights are more complicated. An individualist approach would certainly
recognize the ability of groups (e.g., publicly owned corporations or even
political communities) to own land, but see these as extensions of individual
rights (as Tapani pointed out). However, the property rights of a very
different culture may not be recognizable to a modern legal regime, and
vice-versa, and so it may be better to handle those situations as a kind
of special sovereignty. However, a collectivist approach to property rights
can just as easily work against indigenous minorities as for them. I am
sure you know the history. </font></font></font></span><o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><font face="Arial"><font color="#000080"><font size=-1>But
for the sake of this submission, we obviously need to reflect differing
opinions. Can’t we find a simple way forward here? Isn’t it as simple
as a statement such as “while differing opinions on individual and collective
rights exist” within the context of the general request, which is to
make rights a main theme for <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Cairo</st1:City></st1:place>?
(which doesn’t seem to be disputed)</font></font></font><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>That's
what I thought my original edit did. I'd be happy to delete the line about
how state-provided internet access might be used to violate other rights,
even though I think the point is true and salient, I recognize that it
may be a bit too in-your-face. </font></font></font></span><o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></blockquote>
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