[governance] Taiwanese nationals and the IGF

Mon Sep 9 08:22:01 EDT 2019

A very sad case,
"As of January 11, 2011, *Taiwan*-passport holders *do* not *need a visa* to
enter the countries of the Schengen Agreement as a tourist or for business
purposes, provided that no employment is taken. *Germany* is part of the
Schengen-area. ... Nationals from other countries residing in *Taiwan*
 might *require a visa* to enter *Germany*.Jan 18, 2018"

So assuming Taiwanese are in Berlin, they're not allowed to the IGF meeting
because they can't register themselves.

Must move forward with Farzi's suggestion to get rid of nation states.

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:11 farzaneh badii <governance at lists.riseup.net>
wrote:

> You have to identify your nationality on the form to register. Last time I
> checked Taiwan wasn't listed. Also not all passports arecprvileged enough
> to just pop into another country with without a visa. So I wonder if they'd
> even get a visa letter.. Maybe if they are physically in the host city ...
> But if not ...
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 7:58 AM Tapani Tarvainen <tapani.tarvainen at effi.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think the issue here is travel: Taiwanese passport is good
>> enough to travel almost everywhere, it's just not accepted for IGF
>> registration.
>>
>> Actually I find it curious that a passport is required at all for IGF.
>> After all quite a few people could travel to Berlin without one: not
>> only all Germans but everybody in the Schengen zone as well.
>>
>> Although the guidelines only talk about "picture ID", even if the
>> account creation form wants passport... has anybody tried to use
>> another type of ID?
>>
>> (Yeah, getting rid of nation states would solve this problem. I fear
>> we won't get it done in time for this year's IGF though.)
>>
>> Tapani
>>
>> On Sep 07 14:35, farzaneh badii (governance at lists.riseup.net) wrote:
>>
>> > E-citizenship doesnt give you a passport to travel. The only solution
>> is to
>> > get rid of the concept of nation states and treat people as people and
>> not
>> > clans.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 2:23 PM Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Estonian E-citizenships, perhaps?
>> > >
>> > > Doesn’t solve the problem, but it’s a work-around.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >                 -Bill
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sep 6, 2019, at 01:52, Michael J. Oghia (via governance Mailing
>> List) <
>> > > governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi Ian,
>> > >
>> > > Thanks so much for this thoughtful response, and indeed, I sent it in
>> > > frustration. I realise, however, that this issue goes way beyond the
>> IGF.
>> > > Moreover, since a member of the Chinese government is a member of the
>> MAG,
>> > > I seriously doubt the MAG would even be open to discussing it.
>> > >
>> > > The point you raise about stateless individuals is an interesting one,
>> > > though, as I don't know what the protocol is for that. Taiwan
>> nationals
>> > > clearly aren't stateless, though, so those are two separate points
>> > > (regardless, I still recommend the IGF develop a procedure for
>> including
>> > > stateless individuals/groups).
>> > >
>> > > It seems this is an injustice that will have to pursue, and she can
>> attend
>> > > remotely if interested.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > -Michael
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 10:46 AM ian.peter at ianpeter.com <
>> > > ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I wish there was an easy answer to this Michael.
>> > >>
>> > >> But as I understand it, we are dealing with a whole-of-UN problem,
>> not
>> > >> just an IGF one. For whatever historic reasons, and they are to do
>> with
>> > >> recognition of the Peoples Republic of China, Taiwan is not
>> recognised by
>> > >> the UN as a nation state - although they would like to be and have a
>> few
>> > >> allies pushing their cause.
>> > >>
>> > >> I believe it goes back to 1971. China's attitude has been "The
>> *United
>> > >> Nations* is an international organization composed of sovereign
>> states.
>> > >> *Taiwan* as a province of China is completely *not* qualified and
>> *has
>> > >> no* right to participate in it. Due to the well-known reasons, the
>> > >> *Taiwan* authorities illegally usurped China's *UN* seat for as long
>> as
>> > >> 22 years" (http://ae.china-embassy.org/eng/zt/twwt/t150866.htm)
>> > >>
>> > >> But having said that - others might be able to provide more
>> background -
>> > >> since IGF is not a meeting of nation states, but also includes civil
>> > >> society and other stakeholders, one would think there might  be a way
>> > >> around it. Yes, to register one needs a passport - maybe an ally of
>> Taiwan
>> > >> would be prepared to issue passports or acceptab;e documents for
>> Taiwanese
>> > >> citizens?
>> > >>
>> > >> I don't know how we could get around this, just brainstorming. In an
>> > >> ideal IGF, stateless people would have a voice and be able to attend,
>> > >> subject of course to standard security clearances. Maybe MAG could
>> explore
>> > >> this?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Ian Peter
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ------ Original Message ------
>> > >> From: "Michael J. Oghia" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>> > >> To: "IGC" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>> > >> Sent: 6/09/2019 5:49:07 PM
>> > >> Subject: [governance] Taiwanese nationals and the IGF
>> > >>
>> > >> Hi everyone,
>> > >>
>> > >> I'd like to raise a serious concern I have regarding the IGF. A
>> contact
>> > >> of mine in Taiwan is having trouble registering for the IGF. She
>> solely has
>> > >> a Taiwanese passport, but the IGF, as a UN event, can only register
>> > >> individuals who have a passport from a UN member state (of which
>> Taiwan is
>> > >> not a member). I checked with the IGF Secretariat, and unfortunately,
>> > >> there's not much they can do about it.
>> > >>
>> > >> I know that the politics surrounding China and Taiwan are
>> contentious,
>> > >> however, this essentially means that she (and anyone else) from
>> Taiwan –
>> > >> more than 23.5 million people – are essentially barred from
>> attending the
>> > >> IGF if they don't have another passport.
>> > >>
>> > >> I find this *deeply problematic* and in violation of the fundamental
>> > >> principles of the multi-stakeholder model, namely the fact that it's
>> meant
>> > >> to be inclusive and open to all.
>> > >>
>> > >> Has anyone encountered this problem in the past, either in the IG
>> sector
>> > >> or another development sector? Does anyone have ideas for how it can
>> be
>> > >> resolved? I'm well aware this is not the first instance of a
>> Taiwanese
>> > >> national being excluded from participation in a global event, so
>> perhaps
>> > >> this is a moot point and no one can help. Still, it still strikes me
>> as
>> > >> incredibly unjust and unfair that regional politics would prevent
>> > >> individuals from attending the IGF.
>> > >>
>> > >> Best,
>> > >> -Michael
>> > >> __________________
>> > >>
>> > >> Michael J. Oghia | Advocacy & Engagement Manager
>> > >> Global Forum for Media Development (GFMD <https://gfmd.info>)
>> > >> Belgrade, Serbia | Twitter <https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia> |
>> LinkedIn
>> > >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia>
>> > >>
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>> > --
>> > Farzaneh
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> Farzaneh
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