[governance] Taiwanese nationals and the IGF

Mon Sep 9 08:11:11 EDT 2019

You have to identify your nationality on the form to register. Last time I
checked Taiwan wasn't listed. Also not all passports arecprvileged enough
to just pop into another country with without a visa. So I wonder if they'd
even get a visa letter.. Maybe if they are physically in the host city ...
But if not ...

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 7:58 AM Tapani Tarvainen <tapani.tarvainen at effi.org>
wrote:

> I don't think the issue here is travel: Taiwanese passport is good
> enough to travel almost everywhere, it's just not accepted for IGF
> registration.
>
> Actually I find it curious that a passport is required at all for IGF.
> After all quite a few people could travel to Berlin without one: not
> only all Germans but everybody in the Schengen zone as well.
>
> Although the guidelines only talk about "picture ID", even if the
> account creation form wants passport... has anybody tried to use
> another type of ID?
>
> (Yeah, getting rid of nation states would solve this problem. I fear
> we won't get it done in time for this year's IGF though.)
>
> Tapani
>
> On Sep 07 14:35, farzaneh badii (governance at lists.riseup.net) wrote:
>
> > E-citizenship doesnt give you a passport to travel. The only solution is
> to
> > get rid of the concept of nation states and treat people as people and
> not
> > clans.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 2:23 PM Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Estonian E-citizenships, perhaps?
> > >
> > > Doesn’t solve the problem, but it’s a work-around.
> > >
> > >
> > >                 -Bill
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 6, 2019, at 01:52, Michael J. Oghia (via governance Mailing
> List) <
> > > governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ian,
> > >
> > > Thanks so much for this thoughtful response, and indeed, I sent it in
> > > frustration. I realise, however, that this issue goes way beyond the
> IGF.
> > > Moreover, since a member of the Chinese government is a member of the
> MAG,
> > > I seriously doubt the MAG would even be open to discussing it.
> > >
> > > The point you raise about stateless individuals is an interesting one,
> > > though, as I don't know what the protocol is for that. Taiwan nationals
> > > clearly aren't stateless, though, so those are two separate points
> > > (regardless, I still recommend the IGF develop a procedure for
> including
> > > stateless individuals/groups).
> > >
> > > It seems this is an injustice that will have to pursue, and she can
> attend
> > > remotely if interested.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > -Michael
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 10:46 AM ian.peter at ianpeter.com <
> > > ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I wish there was an easy answer to this Michael.
> > >>
> > >> But as I understand it, we are dealing with a whole-of-UN problem, not
> > >> just an IGF one. For whatever historic reasons, and they are to do
> with
> > >> recognition of the Peoples Republic of China, Taiwan is not
> recognised by
> > >> the UN as a nation state - although they would like to be and have a
> few
> > >> allies pushing their cause.
> > >>
> > >> I believe it goes back to 1971. China's attitude has been "The *United
> > >> Nations* is an international organization composed of sovereign
> states.
> > >> *Taiwan* as a province of China is completely *not* qualified and *has
> > >> no* right to participate in it. Due to the well-known reasons, the
> > >> *Taiwan* authorities illegally usurped China's *UN* seat for as long
> as
> > >> 22 years" (http://ae.china-embassy.org/eng/zt/twwt/t150866.htm)
> > >>
> > >> But having said that - others might be able to provide more
> background -
> > >> since IGF is not a meeting of nation states, but also includes civil
> > >> society and other stakeholders, one would think there might  be a way
> > >> around it. Yes, to register one needs a passport - maybe an ally of
> Taiwan
> > >> would be prepared to issue passports or acceptab;e documents for
> Taiwanese
> > >> citizens?
> > >>
> > >> I don't know how we could get around this, just brainstorming. In an
> > >> ideal IGF, stateless people would have a voice and be able to attend,
> > >> subject of course to standard security clearances. Maybe MAG could
> explore
> > >> this?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ian Peter
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------ Original Message ------
> > >> From: "Michael J. Oghia" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> > >> To: "IGC" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> > >> Sent: 6/09/2019 5:49:07 PM
> > >> Subject: [governance] Taiwanese nationals and the IGF
> > >>
> > >> Hi everyone,
> > >>
> > >> I'd like to raise a serious concern I have regarding the IGF. A
> contact
> > >> of mine in Taiwan is having trouble registering for the IGF. She
> solely has
> > >> a Taiwanese passport, but the IGF, as a UN event, can only register
> > >> individuals who have a passport from a UN member state (of which
> Taiwan is
> > >> not a member). I checked with the IGF Secretariat, and unfortunately,
> > >> there's not much they can do about it.
> > >>
> > >> I know that the politics surrounding China and Taiwan are contentious,
> > >> however, this essentially means that she (and anyone else) from
> Taiwan –
> > >> more than 23.5 million people – are essentially barred from attending
> the
> > >> IGF if they don't have another passport.
> > >>
> > >> I find this *deeply problematic* and in violation of the fundamental
> > >> principles of the multi-stakeholder model, namely the fact that it's
> meant
> > >> to be inclusive and open to all.
> > >>
> > >> Has anyone encountered this problem in the past, either in the IG
> sector
> > >> or another development sector? Does anyone have ideas for how it can
> be
> > >> resolved? I'm well aware this is not the first instance of a Taiwanese
> > >> national being excluded from participation in a global event, so
> perhaps
> > >> this is a moot point and no one can help. Still, it still strikes me
> as
> > >> incredibly unjust and unfair that regional politics would prevent
> > >> individuals from attending the IGF.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> -Michael
> > >> __________________
> > >>
> > >> Michael J. Oghia | Advocacy & Engagement Manager
> > >> Global Forum for Media Development (GFMD <https://gfmd.info>)
> > >> Belgrade, Serbia | Twitter <https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia> |
> LinkedIn
> > >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia>
> > >>
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> > --
> > Farzaneh
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-- 
Farzaneh
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