[governance] [] Internet Social Forum-->Jeremy's Jeremiad and Philip's Phillipic
Suresh Ramasubramanian
suresh at hserus.net
Wed Jan 28 18:42:06 EST 2015
That propaganda maxim about repeated lies is more often attributed to
Joseph goebbels than it is to Joe McCarthy, by the way.
On January 29, 2015 5:07:18 AM McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
> Avri,
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>
> > (repeat of reply sent to Bestbits)
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I must say, I am in complete agreement with the notion that a lie repeated
> > often enough neither becomes the truth nor represents that which is the
> > case.
> >
> >
> +1
>
>
>
> > A main issue, however, is identifying whose statements constitute lies,
> > and I expect there are differences of opinion on who is putting forward
> > falsehoods.
> >
> >
> Yup.
>
>
> > Beyond that, I did not know we had any US Senators on this list. Living
> > or dead.
> >
> >
>
> Does no one else find it hilarious that McCarthyism (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism) is being used to accuse someone
> else of being McCarthy-ist?
>
> All I did was send a link. I did not endorse the views of the author. I
> was attacked for that.
>
> I would appreciate the CoCo's intervention on this matter in accordance
> with the Charter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > avri
> >
> >
> >
> > On 28-Jan-15 11:00, michael gurstein wrote:
> >
> > McTim (or should I say (Sen.) McCarthy…
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m hoping that folks are wise enough not to think that if a lie is
> > repeated often enough and loudly enough and particularly if it can be
> > referenced to a blogpost with a reference to a (slightly deranged err over
> > the top) blogpost that provides significantly distorted and selective
> > references to a further set of documents then somehow it has a reality
> > beyond simply self-interested commentary (sigh, but such is the Internet…
> >
> >
> >
> > And now to:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeremy’s Jeremiad <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiad> and Phillip’s
> > Philippic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippic>
> >
> >
> >
> > As they say the worst insult is to be ignored, and no publicity is bad
> > publicity… so thanks folks for spreading the word about the JNC and the ISF.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That Philip got it wrong following Jeremy’s wild distortions and
> > misrepresentations shouldn’t be too surprising. I’ll leave a detailed
> > cross referencing between reality and what Jeremy has oozed out to others
> > with a more Talmudic bent but just to say that I’m expecting a libel action
> > to be forthcoming from my PM Stephen Harper at the possibility that he
> > might be funding my contributions to the JNC or the ISF (I would expect
> > similar rumblings from various of the other “state actors” to which he
> > might so circuitously and ponderously be referring).
> >
> >
> >
> > But just to note—it is only in the minds of the profoundly anti-democratic
> > (and historically illiterate) that statements to the effect that “The
> > right to make Internet-related public policies lies exclusively with those
> > who legitimately and directly represent people” is (mis) represented as
> > calling for governance solely by and through existing governmental (or
> > inter-governmental) structures or more specifically existing and very often
> > undemocratic and unrepresentative governments and state structures/actors
> > (whoever they may be).
> >
> >
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [
> > mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> > <governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>] *On Behalf Of *McTim
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 27, 2015 9:02 AM
> > *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global
> > Journal
> > *Cc:* parminder; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; discuss at 1net.org >> 1Net
> > List
> > *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] [governance] Internet Social Forum
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting a CircleID piece by Philip Corwin:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20150125_occupy_ig_internet_social_forum_targets_netmundial_initiative/
> >
> > "The author is not familiar with most of the groups constituting ISF. As
> > always, a good rule for understanding true intent is "follow the money".
> > We'd find it illuminating to know where they get their funding and whether
> > any state actors are involved (and a colleague more familiar with the
> > global IG scene advises that at least several are indeed closely linked to
> > their national governments, and are unsurprisingly more favorable toward
> > the government-led multilateral approach on IG than the private sector
> > oriented MSM). So there is some question as to whether ISF is a genuine
> > grassroots Netizen movement — or a convergence of government-dominated
> > organizations pairing with "useful idiot
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot>” entities to pursue a
> > broader and more pernicious agenda of undermining the MSM and replacing it
> > with a UN-led, government-dominated one. "
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 1:23 AM, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global
> > Journal <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Quoted a Register piece written by Kieren McCarthy
> >
> > Hibernating NetMundial continues to rattle internet governance world
> > reg.cx/2dZG <http://t.co/0D2vSUtqqf>
> >
> >
> >
> > As to NetMundial's three-month consultation period, that will seemingly be
> > led by respected internet governance academic and ICANN Board member
> > Wolfgang Kleinwachter. The NetMundial organizers did not reveal how much
> > they will pay Kleinwachter to lend the initiative his credibility, but his
> > first attempt to make the internet community learn to love the idea came in
> > the form of a blog post
> >
> <http://www.circleid.com/posts/20150103_internet_governance_outlook_2015_2_processes_many_venues_4_baskets/>
> at
> > the start of the year.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 24 janv. 2015 à 00:21, parminder a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday 23 January 2015 11:31 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Parminder,
> >
> >
> >
> > how the ISF is linked to the IGF?
> >
> >
> > Hi Wolfgang
> >
> > One is a civil society forum, the other a multistakeholder one. One
> > develops people's and civil society's positions on the key issue of the
> > global Internet, the other is a place where such positions can enter into
> > dialogue with holders of political and economic power - the governments and
> > the corporate actors.
> >
> > Unless now the whole idea and concept of civil society - and along with
> > those of people's movements, grassroots, activism, and so on - has been
> > fully coopted in some people's mind with that of multistakeholderism
> > (whatever one actually means by it, something that has remained notoriously
> > unclear), the connection or link that you inquire about is extremely clear
> > to me.
> >
> > Internet is not the first thing for which there has been felt a need for
> > 'independently' forming a people's conception and set of hopes,
> > expectations and demands - away from conclaves of power. There have been
> > scores of others, and newer ones continue to arise. Accordingly if people's
> > and civil society forums etc have been meaningful and needed in these
> > areas, it is incumbent upon *those* who think they are *not needed* in the
> > Internet space to explain why it is so, then the other way around.
> >
> > To put is somewhat flippantly, ISF is also a reaction of people who are
> > fed up with an ongoing IG charade where for instance Fadi Chehade can with
> > a straight face call the WEF's Net Mundial Initiative as the 'mother of all
> > bottom -up processes' - even jokes require some plausibility limits!
> >
> > To take the example of one of the latest international global forums on a
> > key global governance issue, the Lima meeting on climate change, you will
> > perhaps know that parallel to it a people's meeting was held. Internet and
> > its governance also needs such meetings, that is the simple logic of the
> > Internet Social Forum. If you think that in the Internet's case, such
> > meetings and forums are not needed, I would of course be curious to hear
> > your case.
> >
> > I am happy to engage further with you on this issue, and answer your
> > questions.
> >
> > Lastly, let me invite you to join the ISF process. We work under the World
> > Social Forum (WSF) process and principles - whereby its meetings are open
> > to all civil society participants subject to very inimum conditions that
> > are listed on their website.
> >
> > Further, if the discussion is to now turn to the WSF, its meaning,
> > relevance, etc, I am as happy to engage with you on that subject.
> >
> > Regards, parminder
> >
> >
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >
> > Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von parminder
> >
> > Gesendet: Do 22.01.2015 17:01
> >
> > An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >
> > Betreff: Re: [governance] Internet Social Forum
> >
> > Enclosed Spanish version... parminder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday 22 January 2015 07:06 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> >
> > Global Civil Society launches the Internet Social Forum
> >
> > - With a call to occupy the Internet
> >
> >
> >
> > PRESS RELEASE. Geneva, Switzerland, 22st January, 2015.
> >
> >
> >
> > A group of civil society organisations from around the world has
> >
> > announced the Internet Social Forum, to bring together and articulate
> >
> > bottom-up perspectives on the 'Internet we want'. Taking inspiration
> >
> > from the World Social Forum, and its clarion call, 'Another World is
> >
> > possible', the group seeks to draw urgent attention to the increasing
> >
> > centralization of the Internet for extraction of monopoly rents and for
> >
> > socio-political control, asserting that 'Another Internet is possible'!
> >
> >
> >
> > The Internet Social Forum will inter alia offer an alternative to the
> >
> > recently-launched World Economic Forum's 'Net Mundial Initiative' on
> >
> > global Internet governance. While the World Economic Forum (WEF) and
> >
> > the 'Net Mundial Initiative' convene global elites, the Internet Social
> >
> > Forum will be a participatory and bottom-up space for all those who
> >
> > believe that the global Internet must evolve in the public interest; a
> >
> > direct parallel to the launch of the World Social Forum in 2001 as a
> >
> > counter initiative to the WEF.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Internet Social Forum will reach out to grassroots groups and
> >
> > social movements across the world, catalysing a groundswell that
> >
> > challenges the entrenched elite interests that currently control how
> >
> > the Internet is managed. The Internet Social Forum's preparatory
> >
> > process will kick off during the World Social Forum to take place in
> >
> > Tunis, March 24th to 28th, 2015. The Internet Social Forum itself is
> >
> > planned to be held either late 2015 or early 2016.
> >
> >
> >
> > "While the world's biggest companies have every right to debate the
> >
> > future of the Internet, we are concerned that their perspectives should
> >
> > not drown out those of ordinary people who have no access to the
> >
> > privileged terrain WEF occupies - in the end it is this wider public
> >
> > interest that must be paramount in governing the Internet. We are
> >
> > organising the Internet Social Forum to make sure their voices can't be
> >
> > ignored in the corridors of power," said Norbert Bollow, Co-Convenor of
> >
> > the Just Net Coalition, which is one of the groups involved in the
> >
> > initiative.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Internet Social Forum, and its preparatory process, is intended as
> >
> > a space to vision and build the 'Internet we want'. It will be
> >
> > underpinned by values of democracy, human rights and social justice. It
> >
> > will stand for participatory policy making and promote community media.
> >
> > It will seek an Internet that is truly decentralized in its
> >
> > architecture and based on people's full rights to data, information,
> >
> > knowledge and other 'commons' that the Internet has enabled the world
> >
> > community to generate and share.
> >
> >
> >
> > Somewhat similar to Web inventor Tim Berners-Lee's call for a 'Magna
> >
> > Carta for the Internet', the Internet Social Forum proposes to develop
> >
> > a People's Internet Manifesto, through a bottom-up process involving
> >
> > all concerned social groups and movements, in different areas, from
> >
> > techies and ICT-for-development actors to media reform groups,
> >
> > democracy movements and social justice activists.
> >
> >
> >
> > This year will also see the 10 year high-level review of the World
> >
> > Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), to be held in New York in
> >
> > December. As a full-scale review of a major UN summit, this will be a
> >
> > critical global political event. Since the WSIS, held in 2003 and 2005,
> >
> > the Internet, and what it means socially, has undergone a paradigm
> >
> > shift. The WSIS witnessed active engagement of civil society and
> >
> > technical groups as well as of business. However, currently, there
> >
> > seems to be an deliberate attempt to sideline this UN-led initiative on
> >
> > governance issues of the information society and Internet in favour of
> >
> > private, big-business-dominated initiatives like the WEF's Net Mundial
> >
> > Initiative. The Internet Social Forum, while remaining primarily a
> >
> > people's forum, will also seek to channel global civil society's
> >
> > engagement towards the WSIS +10 review.
> >
> >
> >
> > The following organisations form the initial group that is proposing
> >
> > the Internet Social Forum, and many more are expected to join in the
> >
> > immediate future. This is an open call to progressive groups from all
> >
> > over the world to join this initiative, and participate in developing a
> >
> > People's Internet Manifesto.
> >
> >
> >
> > Just Net Coalition, Global
> >
> > P2P Foundation, Global
> >
> > Transnational Institute, Global
> >
> > Forum on Communication for Integration of our America, Regional (Latin
> >
> > America) Arab NGO Network for Development, Regional
> >
> > Agencia Latinoamericana de Información, Regional
> >
> > Alternative Informatics Association, Turkey
> >
> > Knowledge Commons, India
> >
> > Open-Root/EUROLINC, France
> >
> > SLFC.in, India
> >
> > CODE-IP Trust, Kenya
> >
> > GodlyGlobal.org, Switzerland
> >
> > Centre for Community Informatics Research, Development and Training,
> >
> > Canada IT for Change, India
> >
> > Association for Proper Internet Governance, Switzerland
> >
> > Computer Professionals Union, Philippines
> >
> > Free Press, USA
> >
> > Advocates of Science and Technology for the People, Philippines
> >
> > Other News, Italy
> >
> > Free Software Movement of India
> >
> > Global_Geneva, Switzerland
> >
> > Solidarius (Solidarity Economy Network), Italy
> >
> > All India Peoples Science Network, India
> >
> > Institute for Local Self-Reliance - Community Broadband Networks, USA
> >
> >
> >
> > Please contact us at secretariat at InternetSocialForum.net for further
> >
> > information or clarification.
> >
> >
> >
> > Or the following regional contacts:
> >
> >
> >
> > Africa: Alex Gakaru <AlexG at InternetSocialForum.net>
> >
> > Asia: Rishab Bailey <RishabB at InternetSocialForum.net>
> >
> > Europe: Norbert Bollow <NorbertB at InternetSocialForum.net>
> >
> > North America: Micheal Gurstein <MichealG at InternetSocialForum.net>
> >
> > South America: Sally Burch <SallyB at InternetSocialForum.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This press release is also available online, e.g. at
> >
> > http://justnetcoalition.org/ISF
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> > http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > McTim
> > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> > indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> > http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
>
>
>
> ----------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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