[governance] [] Internet Social Forum-->Jeremy's Jeremiad and Philip's Phillipic

McTim dogwallah at gmail.com
Wed Jan 28 18:35:42 EST 2015


Avri,

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:

>  (repeat of reply sent to Bestbits)
>
> Hi,
>
> I must say, I am in complete agreement with the notion that a lie repeated
> often enough neither becomes the truth nor  represents that which is the
> case.
>
>
+1



> A main issue, however, is identifying whose statements constitute lies,
> and I expect there are differences of opinion on who is putting forward
> falsehoods.
>
>
Yup.


> Beyond that, I did not know we had any US Senators on this list.   Living
> or dead.
>
>

Does no one else find it hilarious that McCarthyism (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism) is being used to accuse someone
else of being McCarthy-ist?

All I did was send a link.  I did not endorse the views of the author.  I
was attacked for that.

I would appreciate the CoCo's intervention on this matter in accordance
with the Charter.








> avri
>
>
>
> On 28-Jan-15 11:00, michael gurstein wrote:
>
>  McTim (or should I say (Sen.) McCarthy…
>
>
>
> I’m hoping that folks are wise enough not to think that if a lie is
> repeated often enough and loudly enough and particularly if it can be
> referenced to a blogpost with a reference to a (slightly deranged err over
> the top) blogpost that provides significantly distorted and selective
> references to a further set of documents then somehow it has a reality
> beyond simply self-interested commentary (sigh, but such is the Internet…
>
>
>
> And now to:
>
>
>
> Jeremy’s Jeremiad <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiad> and Phillip’s
> Philippic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippic>
>
>
>
> As they say the worst insult is to be ignored, and no publicity is bad
> publicity… so thanks folks for spreading the word about the JNC and the ISF.
>
>
>
>
> That Philip got it wrong following Jeremy’s wild distortions and
> misrepresentations shouldn’t be too surprising.  I’ll leave a detailed
> cross referencing between reality and what Jeremy has oozed out to others
> with a more Talmudic bent but just to say that I’m expecting a libel action
> to be forthcoming from my PM Stephen Harper at the possibility that he
> might be funding my contributions to the JNC or the ISF (I would expect
> similar rumblings from various of the other “state actors” to which he
> might so circuitously and ponderously be referring).
>
>
>
> But just to note—it is only in the minds of the profoundly anti-democratic
> (and historically illiterate) that statements to the effect that “The
> right to make Internet-related public policies lies exclusively with those
> who legitimately and directly represent people” is (mis) represented as
> calling for governance solely by and through existing governmental (or
> inter-governmental) structures or more specifically existing and very often
> undemocratic and unrepresentative governments and state structures/actors
> (whoever they may be).
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [
> mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> <governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>] *On Behalf Of *McTim
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 27, 2015 9:02 AM
> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global
> Journal
> *Cc:* parminder; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; discuss at 1net.org >> 1Net
> List
> *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] [governance] Internet Social Forum
>
>
>
> Quoting a CircleID piece by Philip Corwin:
>
>
> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20150125_occupy_ig_internet_social_forum_targets_netmundial_initiative/
>
> "The author is not familiar with most of the groups constituting ISF. As
> always, a good rule for understanding true intent is "follow the money".
> We'd find it illuminating to know where they get their funding and whether
> any state actors are involved (and a colleague more familiar with the
> global IG scene advises that at least several are indeed closely linked to
> their national governments, and are unsurprisingly more favorable toward
> the government-led multilateral approach on IG than the private sector
> oriented MSM). So there is some question as to whether ISF is a genuine
> grassroots Netizen movement — or a convergence of government-dominated
> organizations pairing with "useful idiot
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot>” entities to pursue a
> broader and more pernicious agenda of undermining the MSM and replacing it
> with a UN-led, government-dominated one. "
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 1:23 AM, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global
> Journal <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net> wrote:
>
> Quoted a Register piece written by Kieren McCarthy
>
> Hibernating NetMundial continues to rattle internet governance world
> reg.cx/2dZG <http://t.co/0D2vSUtqqf>
>
>
>
> As to NetMundial's three-month consultation period, that will seemingly be
> led by respected internet governance academic and ICANN Board member
> Wolfgang Kleinwachter. The NetMundial organizers did not reveal how much
> they will pay Kleinwachter to lend the initiative his credibility, but his
> first attempt to make the internet community learn to love the idea came in
> the form of a blog post
> <http://www.circleid.com/posts/20150103_internet_governance_outlook_2015_2_processes_many_venues_4_baskets/> at
> the start of the year.
>
>
>
>
>
> Le 24 janv. 2015 à 00:21, parminder a écrit :
>
>
>
>
> On Friday 23 January 2015 11:31 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" wrote:
>
> Hi Parminder,
>
>
>
>  how the ISF is linked to the IGF?
>
>
> Hi Wolfgang
>
> One is a civil society forum, the other a multistakeholder one. One
> develops people's and civil society's positions on the key issue of the
> global Internet, the other is a place where such positions can enter into
> dialogue with holders of political and economic power - the governments and
> the corporate actors.
>
> Unless now the whole idea and concept of civil society - and along with
> those of people's movements, grassroots, activism, and so on - has been
> fully coopted in some people's mind with that of multistakeholderism
> (whatever one actually means by it, something that has remained notoriously
> unclear), the connection or link that you inquire about is extremely clear
> to me.
>
> Internet is not the first thing for which there has been felt a need for
> 'independently' forming a people's conception and set of hopes,
> expectations and demands - away from conclaves of power. There have been
> scores of others, and newer ones continue to arise. Accordingly if people's
> and civil society forums etc have been meaningful and needed in these
> areas, it is incumbent upon *those* who think they are *not needed* in the
> Internet space to explain why it is so, then the other way around.
>
> To put is somewhat flippantly, ISF is also a reaction of people who are
> fed up with an ongoing IG charade where for instance Fadi Chehade can with
> a straight face call the WEF's Net Mundial Initiative as the 'mother of all
> bottom -up processes' - even jokes require some plausibility limits!
>
> To take the example of one of the latest international global forums on a
> key global governance issue, the Lima meeting on climate change, you will
> perhaps know that parallel to it a people's meeting was held. Internet and
> its governance also needs such meetings, that is the simple logic of the
> Internet Social Forum. If you think that in the Internet's case, such
> meetings and forums are not needed, I would of course be curious to hear
> your case.
>
> I am happy to engage further with you on this issue, and answer your
> questions.
>
> Lastly, let me invite you to join the ISF process. We work under the World
> Social Forum (WSF) process and principles - whereby its meetings are open
> to all civil society participants subject to very inimum conditions that
> are listed on their website.
>
> Further, if the discussion is to now turn to the WSF, its meaning,
> relevance, etc, I am as happy to engage with you on that subject.
>
> Regards, parminder
>
>
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>
>  Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von parminder
>
>  Gesendet: Do 22.01.2015 17:01
>
>  An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>
>  Betreff: Re: [governance] Internet Social Forum
>
>   Enclosed Spanish version... parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Thursday 22 January 2015 07:06 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>
>  Global Civil Society launches the Internet Social Forum
>
>   - With a call to occupy the Internet
>
>
>
>   PRESS RELEASE. Geneva, Switzerland, 22st January, 2015.
>
>
>
>   A group of civil society organisations from around the world has
>
>   announced the Internet Social Forum, to bring together and articulate
>
>   bottom-up perspectives on the 'Internet we want'. Taking inspiration
>
>   from the World Social Forum, and its clarion call, 'Another World is
>
>   possible', the group seeks to draw urgent attention to the increasing
>
>   centralization of the Internet for extraction of monopoly rents and for
>
>   socio-political control, asserting that 'Another Internet is possible'!
>
>
>
>   The Internet Social Forum will inter alia offer an alternative to the
>
>   recently-launched World Economic Forum's 'Net Mundial Initiative' on
>
>   global Internet governance. While the World Economic Forum (WEF) and
>
>   the 'Net Mundial Initiative' convene global elites, the Internet Social
>
>   Forum will be a participatory and bottom-up space for all those who
>
>   believe that the global Internet must evolve in the public interest; a
>
>   direct parallel to the launch of the World Social Forum in 2001 as a
>
>   counter initiative to the WEF.
>
>
>
>   The Internet Social Forum will reach out to grassroots groups and
>
>   social movements across the world, catalysing a groundswell that
>
>   challenges the entrenched elite interests that currently control how
>
>   the Internet is managed. The Internet Social Forum's preparatory
>
>   process will kick off during the World Social Forum to take place in
>
>   Tunis, March 24th to 28th, 2015. The Internet Social Forum itself is
>
>   planned to be held either late 2015 or early 2016.
>
>
>
>   "While the world's biggest companies have every right to debate the
>
>   future of the Internet, we are concerned that their perspectives should
>
>   not drown out those of ordinary people who have no access to the
>
>   privileged terrain WEF occupies - in the end it is this wider public
>
>   interest that must be paramount in governing the Internet. We are
>
>   organising the Internet Social Forum to make sure their voices can't be
>
>   ignored in the corridors of power," said Norbert Bollow, Co-Convenor of
>
>   the Just Net Coalition, which is one of the groups involved in the
>
>   initiative.
>
>
>
>   The Internet Social Forum, and its preparatory process, is intended as
>
>   a space to vision and build the 'Internet we want'. It will be
>
>   underpinned by values of democracy, human rights and social justice. It
>
>   will stand for participatory policy making and promote community media.
>
>   It will seek an Internet that is truly decentralized in its
>
>   architecture and based on people's full rights to data, information,
>
>   knowledge and other 'commons' that the Internet has enabled the world
>
>   community to generate and share.
>
>
>
>   Somewhat similar to Web inventor Tim Berners-Lee's call for a 'Magna
>
>   Carta for the Internet', the Internet Social Forum proposes to develop
>
>   a People's Internet Manifesto, through a bottom-up process involving
>
>   all concerned social groups and movements, in different areas, from
>
>   techies and ICT-for-development actors to media reform groups,
>
>   democracy movements and social justice activists.
>
>
>
>   This year will also see the 10 year high-level review of the World
>
>   Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), to be held in New York in
>
>   December. As a full-scale review of a major UN summit, this will be a
>
>   critical global political event. Since the WSIS, held in 2003 and 2005,
>
>   the Internet, and what it means socially, has undergone a paradigm
>
>   shift. The WSIS witnessed active engagement of civil society and
>
>   technical groups as well as of business. However, currently, there
>
>   seems to be an deliberate attempt to sideline this UN-led initiative on
>
>   governance issues of the information society and Internet in favour of
>
>   private, big-business-dominated initiatives like the WEF's Net Mundial
>
>   Initiative. The Internet Social Forum, while remaining primarily a
>
>   people's forum, will also seek to channel global civil society's
>
>   engagement towards the WSIS +10 review.
>
>
>
>   The following organisations form the initial group that is proposing
>
>   the Internet Social Forum, and many more are expected to join in the
>
>   immediate future. This is an open call to progressive groups from all
>
>   over the world to join this initiative, and participate in developing a
>
>   People's Internet Manifesto.
>
>
>
>   Just Net Coalition, Global
>
>   P2P Foundation, Global
>
>   Transnational Institute, Global
>
>   Forum on Communication for Integration of our America, Regional (Latin
>
>   America) Arab NGO Network for Development, Regional
>
>   Agencia Latinoamericana de Información, Regional
>
>   Alternative Informatics Association, Turkey
>
>   Knowledge Commons, India
>
>   Open-Root/EUROLINC, France
>
>   SLFC.in, India
>
>   CODE-IP Trust, Kenya
>
>   GodlyGlobal.org, Switzerland
>
>   Centre for Community Informatics Research, Development and Training,
>
>   Canada IT for Change, India
>
>   Association for Proper Internet Governance, Switzerland
>
>   Computer Professionals Union, Philippines
>
>   Free Press, USA
>
>   Advocates of Science and Technology for the People, Philippines
>
>   Other News, Italy
>
>   Free Software Movement of India
>
>   Global_Geneva, Switzerland
>
>   Solidarius (Solidarity Economy Network), Italy
>
>   All India Peoples Science Network, India
>
>   Institute for Local Self-Reliance - Community Broadband Networks, USA
>
>
>
>   Please contact us at secretariat at InternetSocialForum.net for further
>
>   information or clarification.
>
>
>
>   Or the following regional contacts:
>
>
>
>   Africa:        Alex Gakaru <AlexG at InternetSocialForum.net>
>
>   Asia:          Rishab Bailey <RishabB at InternetSocialForum.net>
>
>   Europe:        Norbert Bollow <NorbertB at InternetSocialForum.net>
>
>   North America: Micheal Gurstein <MichealG at InternetSocialForum.net>
>
>   South America: Sally Burch <SallyB at InternetSocialForum.net>
>
>
>
>
>
>   This press release is also available online, e.g. at
>
>   http://justnetcoalition.org/ISF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
>
> --
>
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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