[governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting

Ginger Paque gpaque at gmail.com
Fri Nov 2 11:17:09 EDT 2012 

Izumi said:
best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
participant
though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.

GINGER: Beautiful, Izumi -- I don't think it could be said any better.
See you all online--I do hope we will form a Skype group for common
'corridor conversations'.



Ginger (Virginia) Paque

VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
Diplo Foundation
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
www.diplomacy.edu/ig
**
**



On 2 November 2012 10:02, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> So far some 12 people on this list indicated that they want to join
> this meeting.
>
> Given limited resources myself can spend for the remaining hour before
> taking
> flight to Baku, only 13 hours from now including my sleep tonight, I
> am not going
> to try to find any large room for this meeting. If someone on this list
> takes
> the responsibility, negotiate with either the local host or IGF
> secretariat, that will
> be great.
>
> Otherwise, I still suggest that we will be around six people. I feel at
> least
> one of co-cos should be there even this is an informal meeting. The leaves
> five. I like to consult with my colleague Sala to make the final selection,
> as coordinators duty. Sorry guys, but sometimes we need to make a
> practical choice in an imperfect manner.
>
> I also understand that the organizer is European Commission and the
> European
> Parliament, not us, we are just invited as guests, and they do have other
> channels for civil societies, NGOs, etc, outside IGC, which is, for me
> perfectly
> fine.
>
> The meeting is scheduled on Nov 8, but they do not plan to announce this
> publicly. I am aware the even putting this on to his list has certain
> announcement
> effect, but, in the interest of openness, at least within IGC, I put it
> here.
>
> Similar meeting happened in Kenya last year with US government. We so far
> have received no invitation from USG or any other parties, but as far as I
> am
> concerned, being the servant of the IGC, I am happy to liaise, or
> coordinate.
>
> I love the diversity, different ideas and positions, and am still
> happy to coordinate.
> But I also ask you guys to sometimes share the responsibility and burdens
> collectively, or at least understand these sometimes delicate and
> difficult limitations
> we all have.
>
> best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
> participant
> though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.
>
> izumi
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/11/2 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
> > Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation
> can
> > be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting
> to
> > be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this
> > kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to
> avoid
> > misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I
> think
> > tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is
> > meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.
> >
> > Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger
> meeting
> > for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.
> >
> > Safe travels,
> > Ginger
> >
> > Ginger (Virginia) Paque
> >
> > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
> > Diplo Foundation
> > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
> > www.diplomacy.edu/ig
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)
> >>
> >> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society
> >> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is
> larger
> >> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd
> >>
> >> --srs (iPad)
> >>
> >> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
> >>
> >> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at
> "imposing
> >> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark
> >> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil
> society"
> >> is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify
> "spokesperson" or
> >> "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the
> >> various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims to
> >> "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You can't
> >> have it both ways I guess).
> >>
> >> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to
> have
> >> "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several
> >> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will de
> >> facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but
> when
> >> other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have
> an
> >> informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European
> >> Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
> >>
> >> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet
> >> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we
> can't
> >> possibly be trusted.
> >>
> >> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open
> meeting
> >> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Andrea
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic
> >>> method.
> >>>
> >>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of
> >>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or
> >>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier.
> We
> >>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial
> >>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are
> so
> >>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their
> attempt
> >>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely
> >>> missing the point.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
> European
> >>> Parliament
> >>>
> >>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
> >>>
> >>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find
> and
> >>> decide who will
> >>>
> >>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep
> >> it in mind.
> >> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
> >>
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> >
> >
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>
>
> --
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>
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