[governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
Izumi AIZU
iza at anr.org
Fri Nov 2 11:20:01 EDT 2012
I wish we could HUG online!
izumi
2012/11/3 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
> Izumi said:
> best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
> participant
> though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.
>
> GINGER: Beautiful, Izumi -- I don't think it could be said any better.
> See you all online--I do hope we will form a Skype group for common
> 'corridor conversations'.
>
>
>
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>
> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
> Diplo Foundation
> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>
>
>
>
> On 2 November 2012 10:02, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> So far some 12 people on this list indicated that they want to join
>> this meeting.
>>
>> Given limited resources myself can spend for the remaining hour before
>> taking
>> flight to Baku, only 13 hours from now including my sleep tonight, I
>> am not going
>> to try to find any large room for this meeting. If someone on this list
>> takes
>> the responsibility, negotiate with either the local host or IGF
>> secretariat, that will
>> be great.
>>
>> Otherwise, I still suggest that we will be around six people. I feel at
>> least
>> one of co-cos should be there even this is an informal meeting. The leaves
>> five. I like to consult with my colleague Sala to make the final
>> selection,
>> as coordinators duty. Sorry guys, but sometimes we need to make a
>> practical choice in an imperfect manner.
>>
>> I also understand that the organizer is European Commission and the
>> European
>> Parliament, not us, we are just invited as guests, and they do have other
>> channels for civil societies, NGOs, etc, outside IGC, which is, for me
>> perfectly
>> fine.
>>
>> The meeting is scheduled on Nov 8, but they do not plan to announce this
>> publicly. I am aware the even putting this on to his list has certain
>> announcement
>> effect, but, in the interest of openness, at least within IGC, I put it
>> here.
>>
>> Similar meeting happened in Kenya last year with US government. We so far
>> have received no invitation from USG or any other parties, but as far as I
>> am
>> concerned, being the servant of the IGC, I am happy to liaise, or
>> coordinate.
>>
>> I love the diversity, different ideas and positions, and am still
>> happy to coordinate.
>> But I also ask you guys to sometimes share the responsibility and burdens
>> collectively, or at least understand these sometimes delicate and
>> difficult limitations
>> we all have.
>>
>> best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
>> participant
>> though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/2 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
>> > Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation
>> > can
>> > be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting
>> > to
>> > be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this
>> > kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to
>> > avoid
>> > misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I
>> > think
>> > tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is
>> > meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.
>> >
>> > Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger
>> > meeting
>> > for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.
>> >
>> > Safe travels,
>> > Ginger
>> >
>> > Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>> >
>> > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>> > Diplo Foundation
>> > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>> > www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)
>> >>
>> >> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society
>> >> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is
>> >> larger
>> >> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd
>> >>
>> >> --srs (iPad)
>> >>
>> >> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
>> >>
>> >> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at
>> >> "imposing
>> >> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the
>> >> dark
>> >> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil
>> >> society"
>> >> is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify
>> >> "spokesperson" or
>> >> "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the
>> >> various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims
>> >> to
>> >> "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You
>> >> can't
>> >> have it both ways I guess).
>> >>
>> >> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to
>> >> have
>> >> "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several
>> >> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will
>> >> de
>> >> facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but
>> >> when
>> >> other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have
>> >> an
>> >> informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European
>> >> Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
>> >>
>> >> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet
>> >> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we
>> >> can't
>> >> possibly be trusted.
>> >>
>> >> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open
>> >> meeting
>> >> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >>
>> >> Andrea
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad,
>> >>> undemocratic
>> >>> method.
>> >>>
>> >>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of
>> >>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or
>> >>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier.
>> >>> We
>> >>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial
>> >>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are
>> >>> so
>> >>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their
>> >>> attempt
>> >>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely
>> >>> missing the point.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
>> >>> European
>> >>> Parliament
>> >>>
>> >>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
>> >>>
>> >>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find
>> >>> and
>> >>> decide who will
>> >>>
>> >>> be there. Around 5 or 6 people, max.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ____________________________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself.
>> >> Keep
>> >> it in mind.
>> >> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
>> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
>> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> >> Izumi Aizu <<
>> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan
>> www.anr.org
>
>
--
>> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org
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