Izumi said:<br>best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online participant<br>
though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.<br><br>GINGER: Beautiful, Izumi -- I don't think it could be said any better.<br>See you all online--I do hope we will form a Skype group for common 'corridor conversations'.<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">Ginger (Virginia) Paque<br><br><div><a href="mailto:VirginiaP@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">VirginiaP@diplomacy.edu</a><br><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Diplo Foundation<br>
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme<br><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig" target="_blank">www.diplomacy.edu/ig</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;height:16px"></span><br><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;height:16px"></span><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;height:16px"></span><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;height:16px"></span><div>
<i></i><br><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><b><i><span style="font-size:10pt"></span></i></b></span></div></span></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 November 2012 10:02, Izumi AIZU <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:iza@anr.org" target="_blank">iza@anr.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
So far some 12 people on this list indicated that they want to join<br>
this meeting.<br>
<br>
Given limited resources myself can spend for the remaining hour before taking<br>
flight to Baku, only 13 hours from now including my sleep tonight, I<br>
am not going<br>
to try to find any large room for this meeting. If someone on this list takes<br>
the responsibility, negotiate with either the local host or IGF<br>
secretariat, that will<br>
be great.<br>
<br>
Otherwise, I still suggest that we will be around six people. I feel at least<br>
one of co-cos should be there even this is an informal meeting. The leaves<br>
five. I like to consult with my colleague Sala to make the final selection,<br>
as coordinators duty. Sorry guys, but sometimes we need to make a<br>
practical choice in an imperfect manner.<br>
<br>
I also understand that the organizer is European Commission and the European<br>
Parliament, not us, we are just invited as guests, and they do have other<br>
channels for civil societies, NGOs, etc, outside IGC, which is, for me perfectly<br>
fine.<br>
<br>
The meeting is scheduled on Nov 8, but they do not plan to announce this<br>
publicly. I am aware the even putting this on to his list has certain<br>
announcement<br>
effect, but, in the interest of openness, at least within IGC, I put it here.<br>
<br>
Similar meeting happened in Kenya last year with US government. We so far<br>
have received no invitation from USG or any other parties, but as far as I am<br>
concerned, being the servant of the IGC, I am happy to liaise, or coordinate.<br>
<br>
I love the diversity, different ideas and positions, and am still<br>
happy to coordinate.<br>
But I also ask you guys to sometimes share the responsibility and burdens<br>
collectively, or at least understand these sometimes delicate and<br>
difficult limitations<br>
we all have.<br>
<br>
best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online participant<br>
though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.<br>
<br>
izumi<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2012/11/2 Ginger Paque <<a href="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">gpaque@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation can<br>
> be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting to<br>
> be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this<br>
> kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to avoid<br>
> misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I think<br>
> tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is<br>
> meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger meeting<br>
> for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.<br>
><br>
> Safe travels,<br>
> Ginger<br>
><br>
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque<br>
><br>
> <a href="mailto:VirginiaP@diplomacy.edu">VirginiaP@diplomacy.edu</a><br>
> Diplo Foundation<br>
> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme<br>
> <a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig" target="_blank">www.diplomacy.edu/ig</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <<a href="mailto:suresh@hserus.net">suresh@hserus.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)<br>
>><br>
>> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society<br>
>> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is larger<br>
>> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd<br>
>><br>
>> --srs (iPad)<br>
>><br>
>> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <<a href="mailto:andrea@digitalpolicy.it">andrea@digitalpolicy.it</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).<br>
>><br>
>> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at "imposing<br>
>> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark<br>
>> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil society"<br>
>> is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify "spokesperson" or<br>
>> "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the<br>
>> various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims to<br>
>> "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You can't<br>
>> have it both ways I guess).<br>
>><br>
>> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to have<br>
>> "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several<br>
>> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will de<br>
>> facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but when<br>
>> other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have an<br>
>> informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European<br>
>> Parliament, all hell breaks loose.<br>
>><br>
>> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet<br>
>> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we can't<br>
>> possibly be trusted.<br>
>><br>
>> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open meeting<br>
>> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?<br>
>><br>
>> Best,<br>
>><br>
>> Andrea<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic<br>
>>> method.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of<br>
>>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or<br>
>>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier. We<br>
>>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial<br>
>>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are so<br>
>>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their attempt<br>
>>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely<br>
>>> missing the point.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <<a href="mailto:iza@anr.org">iza@anr.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European<br>
>>> Parliament<br>
>>><br>
>>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and<br>
>>><br>
>>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and<br>
>>> decide who will<br>
>>><br>
>>> be there. Around 5 or 6 people, max.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep<br>
>> it in mind.<br>
>> Twitter: @andreaglorioso<br>
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<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
>> Izumi Aizu <<<br>
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo<br>
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,<br>
Japan<br>
<a href="http://www.anr.org" target="_blank">www.anr.org</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>