[governance] IGC workshops

[Christopher Wilkinson]

Good evening:

This time, I agree with Milton.

Regards, CW

----------------------------

Milton L Mueller wrote:
> Bill,
> the disconnect is that NN is not "part of" NGN; on the contrary NGN is 
> a trend that runs counter to it. Your phrasing was confusing.
> There's no resistance here to "assessing the potential impacts of 
> trends in the telecom industry..." on the contrary, this is why we 
> proposed and offered to organize an NN panel and why IGP introduced NN 
> into the global IG debate two years ago. So please, climb down from 
> that hobby horse.
>
> Milton Mueller
> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> XS4All Professor, Delft University of Technology
> ------------------------------
> Internet Governance Project:
> http://internetgovernance.org <http://internetgovernance.org/>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch]
>     *Sent:* Monday, June 08, 2009 3:42 AM
>     *To:* Milton L Mueller
>     *Cc:* Governance List
>     *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGC workshops
>
>     Hi Milton,
>
>     Not sure what the disconnect is here. NGN is a term used in
>     industry and policy circles world wide to characterize the shift
>     underway from PSTNs to IP-based convergent nets with new
>     architectures and service provisioning models. An important part
>     of those new models, if the carriers get their way, is to abandon
>     NN, ergo mycharacterization of the issues aspart and parcel of the
>     NGN shift. Some observers say that NGNs could provide the
>     technical means tomonitor and manage traffic in such a manner that
>     all applications are treated on a nondiscriminatory basis, but
>     that doesn't appear the to be preference of the carriers making
>     the investments. And they're getting their way in various places;
>     governments like the UK's have specifically rejected NN as a
>     barrier to NGN development. So I was simply suggesting we might
>     want to consider NN in the context of the larger transformation
>     underway.
>
>     I've moaned here on and off for years about the apparent aversion
>     to assessing the potential impacts of trends in the telecom
>     industry, including its global governance, on the Internet and IG.
>     It really puzzles me that we would treat akatrillion dollar
>     industry that controls much of the underlying infrastructure as
>     somehow irrelevant, particularly after all the (semi-coherent)
>     discussions of international interconnection charging and such in
>     WSIS and beyond. The singular obsession with ICANN---not so much
>     what ICANN actually does, the issues it addresses, but rather what
>     it is or represents institutionally---seems to blot out interest
>     in other issues and leaves the ministries and industry to merrily
>     go there way without any public interest advocacy as a
>     countervailing force beyond purely national discussions. Since we
>     can't or don't participate in most of the international spaces
>     where this stuff goes on, why would we not want to use the
>     opportunities provided by the IGF to explore these dynamics,
>     especially when they're directly relevant to the focus of the
>     workshop?
>
>     Whatever...dead horse duly beaten, back to our regular programming...
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Bill
>
>
>
>     On Jun 8, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
>>     No, I just misunderstood your statement that Net Neutrality is
>>     "part and parcel" of the NGN trajectory. What you apparently mean
>>     is that phone companies may be using NGN to _avoid_ being
>>     neutral, which may be true, and is certainly important if it is.
>>     I still don't know what you meant by "...of which it is part and
>>     parcel."
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:*William Drake[mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch]
>>     *Sent:*Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:38 PM
>>     *To:*Milton L Mueller
>>     *Cc:*Governance List
>>     *Subject:*Re: [governance] IGC workshops
>>     Hi Milton,
>>     On Jun 7, 2009, at 4:49 PM,Milton L Muellerwrote:
>>
>>
>>     I agree. We might want to consider widening the lens an little
>>     and placing NN in the context of the whole NGN trajectory, of
>>     which it is part and parcel.
>>     It is???? I hope not. That's a peculiarly Geneva-centric view of NN
>>     Are you saying that carriers around the world are not in fact
>>     making the investments and pursuing the strategies they say they
>>     are---replacing PSTNs with IP core and access nets, trying to
>>     move to QOS and differentiation, etc? Or that because they adopt
>>     the standards and coordinate on the policies inGeneva, it doesn't
>>     matter that they are doing these things? Or that
>>     becauseinGenevathey use terminology they may not use as much in
>>     theUS,it doesn't matter that they are doing these things? Or that
>>     taking note of the global trends is suspect if one is based
>>     inGeneva? Or...? Perhaps a peculiarly US-centric view of NN at
>>     work here...:-)
>>     But forget the term, forget the ITU. The question is, in the IGF
>>     context, would it be optimal to continue talking about NN as a
>>     stand-alone issue, or might it be useful to view it as part of a
>>     larger set of dynamics in the telecom industry that could affect
>>     the net going forward?
>>     Cheers,
>>     Bill
>
>     ***********************************************************
>     William J. Drake
>     Senior Associate
>     Centre for International Governance
>     Graduate Institute of International and
>     Development Studies
>     Geneva, Switzerland
>     william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
>     <mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch>
>     www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html
>     <http://www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html>
>     ***********************************************************
>

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