<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=x-user-defined"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Good evening:<br>
<br>
This time, I agree with Milton.<br>
<br>
Regards, CW<br>
<br>
----------------------------<br>
<br>
Milton L Mueller wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D77B220A48@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3527" name="GENERATOR">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="291314319-08062009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Bill, </font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="291314319-08062009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">the disconnect is that NN is not
"part of" NGN; on the contrary NGN is a trend that runs counter to it.
Your phrasing was confusing. </font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="291314319-08062009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">There's no resistance here to
"assessing the potential impacts of trends in the telecom industry..."
on the contrary, this is why we proposed and offered to organize an NN
panel and why IGP introduced NN into the global IG debate two years
ago. So please, climb down from that hobby horse. </font></span></div>
<!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<p><font size="2">Milton Mueller<br>
Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies<br>
XS4All Professor, Delft University of Technology<br>
------------------------------<br>
Internet Governance Project:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://internetgovernance.org/">http://internetgovernance.org</a><br>
</font></p>
<div> </div>
<br>
<blockquote dir="ltr"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"
lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
William Drake [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 3:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Governance List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] IGC workshops<br>
</font><br>
</div>
Hi Milton,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not sure what the disconnect is here. NGN is a term used in
industry and policy circles world wide to characterize the shift
underway from PSTNs to IP-based convergent nets with new architectures
and service provisioning models. An important part of those new
models, if the carriers get their way, is to abandon NN, ergo
my characterization of the issues as part and parcel of the NGN shift.
Some observers say that NGNs could provide the technical means
to monitor and manage traffic in such a manner that all applications
are treated on a nondiscriminatory basis, but that doesn't appear the
to be preference of the carriers making the investments. And they're
getting their way in various places; governments like the UK's have
specifically rejected NN as a barrier to NGN development. So I was
simply suggesting we might want to consider NN in the context of the
larger transformation underway.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've moaned here on and off for years about the apparent
aversion to assessing the potential impacts of trends in the telecom
industry, including its global governance, on the Internet and IG. It
really puzzles me that we would treat a katrillion dollar industry that
controls much of the underlying infrastructure as somehow irrelevant,
particularly after all the (semi-coherent) discussions of international
interconnection charging and such in WSIS and beyond. The singular
obsession with ICANN---not so much what ICANN actually does, the issues
it addresses, but rather what it is or represents
institutionally---seems to blot out interest in other issues and leaves
the ministries and industry to merrily go there way without any public
interest advocacy as a countervailing force beyond purely national
discussions. Since we can't or don't participate in most of the
international spaces where this stuff goes on, why would we not want to
use the opportunities provided by the IGF to explore these dynamics,
especially when they're directly relevant to the focus of the workshop?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Whatever...dead horse duly beaten, back to our regular
programming...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jun 8, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 26px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<div style="" vlink="purple" link="blue" lang="EN-US"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="country-region"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="PersonName"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> </O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE>
<div class="Section1">
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">No, I just
misunderstood your statement that Net Neutrality is “part and parcel”
of the NGN trajectory. What you apparently mean is that phone companies
may be using NGN to _avoid_ being neutral, which may be true, and is
certainly important if it is. I still don’t know what you meant by “…of
which it is part and parcel.”<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
<div
style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left: 1.5pt solid blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center;"
align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </span></font></div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on">William
Drake</ST1:PERSONNAME><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a
moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:38 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on">Milton
L Mueller</ST1:PERSONNAME><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Governance List<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [governance] IGC workshops</span></font><O:P></O:P></div>
</div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi
Milton,<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Jun
7, 2009, at 4:49 PM,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">Milton L Mueller</ST1:PERSONNAME><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
<span style="word-spacing: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><U1:P> </U1:P>
<div style="" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<div
style="border-style: none none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">I agree. We might want to
consider widening the lens an little and placing NN in the context of
the whole NGN trajectory, of which it is part and parcel.<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<U1:P></U1:P>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"><U1:P></U1:P></span></font><font
color="black"><span style="color: black;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">It is???? I
hope not. That’s a peculiarly Geneva-centric view of NN<U1:P></U1:P></span></font><font
color="black"><span style="color: black;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"><U1:P></U1:P></span></font><font
color="black"><span style="color: black;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
<span style="word-spacing: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span
style="word-spacing: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span
style="word-spacing: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span
style="word-spacing: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div>
<div style="">
<div>
<div style="">
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">Are you
saying that carriers around the world are not in fact making the
investments and pursuing the strategies they say they are---replacing
PSTNs with IP core and access nets, trying to move to QOS and
differentiation, etc? Or that because they adopt the standards and
coordinate on the policies in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ST1:CITY
w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Geneva</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY>, it
doesn't matter that they are doing these things? Or that because in<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ST1:CITY w:st="on">Geneva</ST1:CITY> they
use terminology they may not use as much in the<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">US</ST1:PLACE></ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>, it doesn't matter that
they are doing these things? Or that taking note of the global trends
is suspect if one is based in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ST1:CITY
w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Geneva</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY>? Or...?
Perhaps a peculiarly US-centric view of NN at work here...:-)<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">But
forget the term, forget the ITU. The question is, in the IGF context,
would it be optimal to continue talking about NN as a stand-alone
issue, or might it be useful to view it as part of a larger set of
dynamics in the telecom industry that could affect the net going
forward?<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">Cheers,<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font
color="black" face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">Bill<O:P></O:P></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<div style=""><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<div style=""><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<div>
<div style="">
<div>
<div style="">
<div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">***********************************************************</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">William J. Drake </div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Senior Associate</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Centre for International Governance</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Graduate Institute of International and</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"> Development Studies</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Geneva, Switzerland</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">
<div style="margin: 0px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html">www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html</a></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">***********************************************************</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>