[governance] Rights and Privacy: Questioning Google's PrivacyReform

Sun Sep 14 20:17:14 EDT 2008

Fouad and all,

  Thank you!  Unfortunately some or a few among us seem
to disagree and degrade into personal attacks as an argument. >:(

  But perhaps such can be understood at some level, which is
a level I find personally to be one below my serious interest,
yet can conceed is a behavior that with such weighty issues
often times unfortunately is displayed.

Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> Fairly well put this time now!
>
> Best
>
> Fouad Bajwa
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams
> <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > McTim and all,
> >
> > McTim wrote:
> >
> >> cc list trimmed.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Jeffrey A. Williams
> >> <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > All, and especially Vint,
> >> >
> >> >  I can't of course speak for the IGC, nor Google users, I am not one,
> >> >
> >> > but I am yet again having trouble believing anything Google officially
> >> > says, or for that matter does, as well as having more and more trouble
> >> > with their sense of right and wrong, and User Friendliness.
> >>
> >> If you are not a Google user, then why do you think you have any
> >> standing to comment on their practices?
> >
> >  Personally I don't.  But a few of our members do.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >  Given that Privacy is a very special and most important right,
> >> > as it is not separable from saftey/security, endangering others by
> >> > having business practices and policies such as Googles TOS
> >>
> >> Individuals use web services of certain companies, if they have
> >> concerns about those companies practices, then they should complain to
> >> that company and/or NOT USE those services.
> >
> > Agreed to a degree.  Simply doing as you suggest does not effect
> > change as history has shown in a reasonable direction more often
> > than not.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > and this article below demonstrates gives me and our members
> >> > much more than just pause, but grave concern as well for many
> >> > obvious and not so obvious reasons, all of which Google executives
> >> > should be well aware of and/or recognize fully, but either don't,
> >> > or do, and could care less...
> >>
> >> If, according to their biz model they feel the need to keep data for a
> >> period of time, and make users aware of this, then it seems to me that
> >> they are full aware.  The facts of the story you cite below leads me
> >> to think they do care.
> >
> >  Problem is they haven't done so until very recently, and even at
> > that, they have not done so in a very broad public way.  Why do
> > they need to keep this data anyway?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > See:
> >> > A story questioning whether Google's recent commitment to anonymize
> >> > IP logs faster is  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-10038963-46.html
> >> > really as good as it sounds.  We discussed
> >> >  http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/09/1334251&tid=158
> >>
> >> It seems to me that this company is doing more for Internet growth in
> >> the developing world than any other I can think of.  It's certainly
> >> the case here in East Africa, with Apps, translation, google.org
> >> support to SMEs, etc.  This is just the latest example:  http://www.o3
> >> bnetworks.com
> >
> >  True enough, ignorance is bliss I suppose...
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> We, as a caucus, should embrace this type of corporate social
> >> responsibility, not criticize them for listening to the concerns of
> >> privacy advocates, and acting upon those concerns.
> >
> >  Obviously I disagree to an extent.  I am not a privacy advocate
> > in the political sense.  Sure, I do have a strong belief in the Bill
> > of Rights and the US Constitution and the privacy rights it extolls.
> > As such, and when Google or any other company or individual
> > tramples or mitigates those rights, however minutely, I proudly
> > and rightly object.  This is as I see it, and swore to same, my
> > duty as an American citizen, and Security Professional.  A US
> > corporations primary social responsibility is as it should be,
> > FIRST and FORMOST to abide by the ALL the laws and Constitutional
> > provisions, and rights under the Bill of Rights.  Not to mitigate
> > same in their own corporate social ideal for the purposes of
> > political advantage of the day or time.  So if we are going to
> > ever have an "Internet Bill of Rights" we as a caucus are going to
> > need to get Google on board of fully, and without any mitigation,
> > respecting individual users rights.  A tall order to be sure!
> >
> >  Otherwise a "Internet Bill of Rights" is a nearly a useless exercise
> > or a empty vessel of very little, if any value.  I know where I stand,
> > and where you and Google stand at present.  Hopefully we can
> > convince you that your and Googles possition is not yet in the interest
> > of the "Greater Good" and when your and Googles is, old Ben's sprit
> > can be proud of us all.  >:)
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> McTim
> >> mctim.blogspot.com (a Google service)
> >> ____________________________________________________________
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> >>
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> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >   Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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> >
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> >
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

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