rights again Re: [governance] Inputs ...

[Guru]

/Regarding the relationship between rights and authority I think, yes, 
authority plays a major role on two dimensions. The one dimension would 
be protection against authority while the other would be securing rights 
by an authority. This all depends on one's understanding of the concept 
of right in the first place. (jeanette)/


Jeanette,

Would you support the validity of both forms of rights (that some rights 
can be those which are secured through the 'authority' while others are 
secured agsinst it)?

The right to education would be an example of the second one. 

regards
Guru



Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>
>
> Avri Doria wrote:
>> <discussion on rights and not the content of the paper
>>   - which i will state no opinion on due to possible conflicts of
>>     interest as a consultant for the IGF secretariat>
>>
>>
>> On 3 Sep 2008, at 13:07, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>>
>>> A narrow interpretation restricts rights to those that enable rights 
>>> holders to file a suit against those who violate the right. I don't 
>>> see who could be held accountable for the lack of "an Internet in 
>>> ones own language". The latter might be a political goal but it 
>>> certainly doesn't sound like a right to me.
>>
>>
>> While i agree that we have to be careful with devaluation of rights 
>> by making the definition too broad, this would argue that there are 
>> no rights without authority - the prerequisite  of 'someone to be 
>> held accountable' that is being offered in several people definitions.
>
> There is of course the concept of natural rights which precede legal 
> rights.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights
>
> My understanding is that such natural rights are even narrower than 
> constitutional rights but, again, I am not an expert.
>
> As an aside, natural rights played a major role in the design of the 
> continental version of intellectual property rights. Such a natural 
> right of the author to his work doesn't exist in the american 
> copyright law. So, it seems even natural rights need to be (legally) 
> secured to keep their relevance.
>
> Regarding the relationship between rights and authority I think, yes, 
> authority plays a major role on two dimensions. The one dimension 
> would be protection against authority while the other would be 
> securing rights by an authority. This all depends on one's 
> understanding of the concept of right in the first place.
> jeanette
>
>>
>> i believe we have rights, i would call them fundamental rights, on 
>> account of our definition of what it  means to be human within a 
>> society and not because we have someone to hold accountable.  Holding 
>> someone accountable is secondary to the existence of a right not the 
>> prerequisite for one.  People had rights before the UDHR was adopted, 
>> they just were not spelled out in that form.
>>
>> There are rights that are fundamental because we are human and that 
>> is how we have agreed to define being human, some of these rights 
>> have been guaranteed, minus caveats like article 29, in the UDHR.  
>> There may also be fundamental rights that have not yet been protected 
>> (e.g sexual orientation, assistance for disability - though these may 
>> fall under the general rubric of other status in the UDHR)
>>
>> There are also derivative rights  - those things that are rights by 
>> virtue of fundamental rights being dependent on those things.
>>
>> As an argument, the right to Internet for all in all languages could 
>> be interpreted as being a requirement by which a fundamental right - 
>> education can be met.
>>
>>
>> e.g.
>>
>> UDHR Article 26.
>>
>>       (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be 
>> free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary 
>> education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education 
>> shall be made generally available and higher education shall be 
>> equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
>>
>>       (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the 
>> human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human 
>> rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, 
>> tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious 
>> groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for 
>> the maintenance of peace.
>>
>>       (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education 
>> that shall be given to their children.
>>
>>      (2 and 3 may contradict each other (parent chooses the education 
>> of intolerance), but that is another discussion)
>>
>>
>> The Internet was designed to be an educational tool - and has become 
>> an indispensable part of learning about today's world and, i would 
>> argue, it is impossible to be fully literate in today's world with 
>> having learnd the Internet and through the Internet about the world.  
>> So I would argue that the right to a multilingual Internet is a 
>> derivative of the fundamental right of education.
>>
>> I believe similar arguments can be made for development being a 
>> derivative rght - many of the other fundamental rights cannot be met 
>> without development.
>>
>> So while I believe rights spring from a source deeper then who is 
>> accountable for them, we do find that anyone who is a UN member is 
>> committed to the UDHR and is accountable for the fundamental rights 
>> by the declaration they 'signed.'  And I believe that a strong 
>> argument can be made that they are also responsible for all of the 
>> rights that derive from these.
>>
>> While there is much room for argument about interpretations on what 
>> is truly necessary to meet the requirements of the fundamental 
>> rights, i think it is essential to press on the right to those things 
>> that are seen as necessary to meet the fundamental obligations.  And 
>> while that fact that someone is accountable is not the source of the 
>> rights, it is good that some nations have agreed that they are 
>> responsible for at least this set of rights and should be held 
>> accountable not only for rights that are written (caveat, they should 
>> feed and stop torturing first) but for all those things that are 
>> rights by virtue of being necessary to enable the other rights.
>>
>>
>> a.
>>
>>
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