rights again Re: [governance] Inputs ...

[Avri Doria]

On 3 Sep 2008, at 15:28, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:

>
> My understanding is that such natural rights are even narrower than  
> constitutional rights but, again,

a derivation from first principles.  i think it can be argued that all  
constitutional rights can be derived from natural rights.


> I am not an expert.

not sure i know what that means.  i think that in this issue we are  
exploring conflicting concepts and one's degree of expertise is  
secondary.

>
>
> As an aside, natural rights played a major role in the design of the  
> continental version of intellectual property rights. Such a natural  
> right of the author to his work doesn't exist in the american  
> copyright law. So, it seems even natural rights need to be (legally)  
> secured to keep their relevance.

relevance is a funny word.  certainly if we make a tight binding of a  
right and its enforceability, then its being written into law becomes  
a measure of relevance.

but i believe that if something it is a right, it is one whether there  
is an enforcement capability or not.  law and its enforcement occupy a  
certain rung on a scale of justice, but not the only rung, and one  
cannot argue that the only things that are right are those that are  
legal.  it is a safe place to hang an argument because law is a  
measure of what we have all agreed to, but it is not the measure of  
right or the measure of how far we have gotten in our agreements on  
what is right.

fortunately with instruments like th UDHR, we have a basis on which to  
argue a full panoply orf rights.  wheether they have all been  
enshrined in natural constitutions of laws yet, they are there by  
reference due to one agreements in becoming members of the UN.

it is empty, for example, to ague that there is no right to education  
even if the government of a particular country has not law to provide  
it as that country - if a UN member - has already committed itself to  
supplying it.  lkewise with freedom of expression and the right to  
work and to work for equal pay.  Just because countries have not yet  
enshrined these rights into law, they have agreed to them.  they may  
not be enforceable yet, but they are both derivative of natural rights  
and fundamental human rights.


>
>
> Regarding the relationship between rights and authority I think,  
> yes, authority plays a major role on two dimensions. The one  
> dimension would be protection against authority while the other  
> would be securing rights by an authority. This all depends on one's  
> understanding of the concept of right in the first place.

I agree it plays a role, what I am arguing is that it is not a  
necessary condition for rights to exist.  I would argue in fact that  
rights have priority over authority and authority that is in  
contravention to rights is not fully legitimate as authority.

a.


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