[governance] Irony

[Rui Correia]

Broccolli is good for you and easy to work with - even beginners soon learn
how to maximise the benefits of working with it, what it goes well with etc.
Now, ICANN is like ox tail - not easy to work, and with so few successful
recipes, you are too scared to explore and experiment. So you end up
allowing the ox tail dictating how to work with it. And it doesn't go with
everything. Don't forget the toothpicks.

Rui

On 29/11/2007, Carlos Afonso <ca at rits.org.br> wrote:
>
> Ahh, broccolli, definitely not. I love broccolli and I do not admit
> anyone missing with it. Now, ICANN, hmmmm....
>
> --c.a.
>
> Kieren McCarthy wrote:
> >> As 'general manager of public participation', I wonder if Kieren is
> >> perhaps attempting to do precisely that - 'managing' the discussions
> >> (attempting to influence the range of 'allowable discourse') by
> >> pronouncing judgement on what is rude or 'personal criticism'.
> >
> >
> > Damn you caught me out. That's exactly what I was trying to do.
> >
> > As such, I am afraid that, Guru, I hereafter ban you from discussing my
> role
> > in ICANN.
> >
> > I should say I am also considering banning all discussion of ICANN
> except
> > with my express permission. And then only on topics I get to decide.
> >
> > I never knew I had so much power. Can I stop people from discussing
> other
> > issues as well? Like broccoli.
> >
> > Perhaps it's best if everyone from now on simply send me an email
> outlining
> > what they would like to discuss and when. I am quite busy at the moment
> so
> > people should expect several days' delay before a response is granted.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kieren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Guru at ITfC [mailto:guru at itforchange.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:40 AM
> > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Irony
> >
> > I was struck by an irony on reading Meryems' mail - on 'simply I find
> very
> > strange this approach to institutions'
> >
> > As 'general manager of public participation', I wonder if Kieren is
> perhaps
> > attempting to do precisely that - 'managing' the discussions (attempting
> to
> > influence the range of 'allowable discourse') by pronouncing judgement
> on
> > what is rude or 'personal criticism'. These attempts convey that
> substantive
> > criticism of ICANN has sometimes been considered 'ad hominem' or 'naïve'
> > (apparently premising on the belief that the alternative to ICANN can
> only
> > be 'Government control' which is ad-infinitum worse ..... and that all
> > discussions on IG need to necessarily be fully anchored within the
> current
> > ig structures) or has been simply ignored.
> >
> > Maybe if the designation were changed to (or interpreted as) a 'Listener
> to
> > Vox Populi' it may persuade Kieren to be a bit more open in the
> discussions
> > (and bit more thick skinned as well -; .... People working for
> governance
> > institutions and that too in a predominant 'Public interface' role
> cannot
> > afford to be thin skinned. And CS does tend to be a bit rough and
> > indisciplined - that is its nature and maybe even its strength).
> Openness +
> > thick skin could be quite useful to gaining understanding of the issues
> and
> > different viewpoints and possible solutions. This logic would apply to
> > others as well on the list which is one reason for this posting !
> >
> > Again like Meryem, I do not intend any personal attack, only that this
> whole
> > process of an employee of the main IG institution 'seeking feedback'
> from an
> > 'open' civil society mailing list, seeming to flirt with 'managing that
> > feedback' within that list discussions appears a tad dangerous and
> ironical.
> >
> > Whereas if criticism of ICANN were to be viewed as 'what are the
> underlying
> > concerns that prompt such criticism, what can be (or could be) done to
> > resolve the issues raised, .... to make ICANN (or any relevant
> equivalent /
> > substitute) more representative/legitimate as well as effective
> ..'  This
> > would also encourage more people to come forward with their views,
> rather
> > than feeling that critical feedback is unwelcome.
> >
> > I once again request my friends to engage with critical comments in that
> > light .... Caveat - this posting does not relate to purely personal
> insults
> >
> > Regards,
> > Guru
> > Ps - Another irony of the charges of ad hominem is that Kieren's first
> > posting to this list was a 'flame' containing verbal abuse of the list
> and
> > its participants :-). I guesss most of us are pots, in various shades of
> > black
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:42 PM
> > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Innovation
> >
> > Hi Jacqueline,
> >
> > Le 28 nov. 07 à 12:40, Jacqueline A. Morris a écrit :
> >
> >>> Last but not least, it seems that an opinion on ICANN could only be
> >>> valued if expressed within a given framework,
> >> I agree - seems to me sometimes that it has to be from the currently
> >> dominant NA/Euro perspective, but I'm OK with a given framework for
> >> discussion as long as it serves the purpose of constructive dialogue.
> >
> > I also agree on this, but this was not my point, actually. I would say
> that
> > this (NA or Euro perspective -- as they're different) is due to the
> > dominance of players from this area/perspective (no need to be from this
> > geographical area to adopt such perspective: back to Frantz Fanon), and
> this
> > is by no way specific to ICANN discussions.
> >
> >>> from inside the institution, and in its own best interests (which are
> >> equated to "the
> >>> Internet's best interests").
> >> I disagree, some of the most passionate opinions expressed to date in
> >> this thread are most emphatically anti-current structure, and some
> >> from outside the "institution" and some from ex-members of the
> >> "institution".
> >
> > Actually, my last point (given framework + from inside + in ICANN best
> > interests) was directly referring to numerous messages posted by Kieren,
> > explicitely in his capacity of ICANN General Manager of Public
> > Participation. No need to provide quotes, I think, specially since one
> may
> > look into the list archives. Kieren: no personal attack here, simply I
> find
> > very strange this approach to institutions.
> >
> > Best,
> > Meryem
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> >
>
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-- 
________________________________________________


Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
2 Cutten St
Horison
Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
South Africa
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
Cell (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
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