[governance] Irony

[Carlos Afonso]

Ahh, broccolli, definitely not. I love broccolli and I do not admit 
anyone missing with it. Now, ICANN, hmmmm....

--c.a.

Kieren McCarthy wrote:
>> As 'general manager of public participation', I wonder if Kieren is 
>> perhaps attempting to do precisely that - 'managing' the discussions 
>> (attempting to influence the range of 'allowable discourse') by 
>> pronouncing judgement on what is rude or 'personal criticism'.
> 
> 
> Damn you caught me out. That's exactly what I was trying to do.
> 
> As such, I am afraid that, Guru, I hereafter ban you from discussing my role
> in ICANN.
> 
> I should say I am also considering banning all discussion of ICANN except
> with my express permission. And then only on topics I get to decide.
> 
> I never knew I had so much power. Can I stop people from discussing other
> issues as well? Like broccoli. 
> 
> Perhaps it's best if everyone from now on simply send me an email outlining
> what they would like to discuss and when. I am quite busy at the moment so
> people should expect several days' delay before a response is granted.
> 
> 
> 
> Kieren
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Guru at ITfC [mailto:guru at itforchange.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:40 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Irony
> 
> I was struck by an irony on reading Meryems' mail - on 'simply I find very
> strange this approach to institutions'
> 
> As 'general manager of public participation', I wonder if Kieren is perhaps
> attempting to do precisely that - 'managing' the discussions (attempting to
> influence the range of 'allowable discourse') by pronouncing judgement on
> what is rude or 'personal criticism'. These attempts convey that substantive
> criticism of ICANN has sometimes been considered 'ad hominem' or 'naïve'
> (apparently premising on the belief that the alternative to ICANN can only
> be 'Government control' which is ad-infinitum worse ..... and that all
> discussions on IG need to necessarily be fully anchored within the current
> ig structures) or has been simply ignored. 
> 
> Maybe if the designation were changed to (or interpreted as) a 'Listener to
> Vox Populi' it may persuade Kieren to be a bit more open in the discussions
> (and bit more thick skinned as well -; .... People working for governance
> institutions and that too in a predominant 'Public interface' role cannot
> afford to be thin skinned. And CS does tend to be a bit rough and
> indisciplined - that is its nature and maybe even its strength). Openness +
> thick skin could be quite useful to gaining understanding of the issues and
> different viewpoints and possible solutions. This logic would apply to
> others as well on the list which is one reason for this posting !
> 
> Again like Meryem, I do not intend any personal attack, only that this whole
> process of an employee of the main IG institution 'seeking feedback' from an
> 'open' civil society mailing list, seeming to flirt with 'managing that
> feedback' within that list discussions appears a tad dangerous and ironical.
> 
> Whereas if criticism of ICANN were to be viewed as 'what are the underlying
> concerns that prompt such criticism, what can be (or could be) done to
> resolve the issues raised, .... to make ICANN (or any relevant equivalent /
> substitute) more representative/legitimate as well as effective ..'  This
> would also encourage more people to come forward with their views, rather
> than feeling that critical feedback is unwelcome.
> 
> I once again request my friends to engage with critical comments in that
> light .... Caveat - this posting does not relate to purely personal insults 
> 
> Regards,
> Guru
> Ps - Another irony of the charges of ad hominem is that Kieren's first
> posting to this list was a 'flame' containing verbal abuse of the list and
> its participants :-). I guesss most of us are pots, in various shades of
> black
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:42 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Innovation
> 
> Hi Jacqueline,
> 
> Le 28 nov. 07 à 12:40, Jacqueline A. Morris a écrit :
> 
>>> Last but not least, it seems that an opinion on ICANN could only be 
>>> valued if expressed within a given framework,
>> I agree - seems to me sometimes that it has to be from the currently 
>> dominant NA/Euro perspective, but I'm OK with a given framework for 
>> discussion as long as it serves the purpose of constructive dialogue.
> 
> I also agree on this, but this was not my point, actually. I would say that
> this (NA or Euro perspective -- as they're different) is due to the
> dominance of players from this area/perspective (no need to be from this
> geographical area to adopt such perspective: back to Frantz Fanon), and this
> is by no way specific to ICANN discussions.
> 
>>> from inside the institution, and in its own best interests (which are
>> equated to "the
>>> Internet's best interests").
>> I disagree, some of the most passionate opinions expressed to date in 
>> this thread are most emphatically anti-current structure, and some 
>> from outside the "institution" and some from ex-members of the 
>> "institution".
> 
> Actually, my last point (given framework + from inside + in ICANN best
> interests) was directly referring to numerous messages posted by Kieren,
> explicitely in his capacity of ICANN General Manager of Public
> Participation. No need to provide quotes, I think, specially since one may
> look into the list archives. Kieren: no personal attack here, simply I find
> very strange this approach to institutions.
> 
> Best,
> Meryem
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> 

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance