[governance] FW: Facebook’s Oversight Board: A toothless Supreme Court?

Fri Oct 4 03:30:11 EDT 2019

If I may add to the irony - if governmental control over such issues by 
191 individual nation states acting unilaterally was likely to somehow 
be effective, we would not have to have this conversation at all and 
indeed all internet governance discussions would be a waste of time. And 
indeed the problems would already have been solved.

But the simple fact is, the current global nation states Westphalian 
system is unable to deal with the complexity of a global network, and we 
have to look at how this might be done more effectively.

Through the UN? Perhaps so. But their track record isnt brilliant. Not 
is the history of multistakeholder efforts, as Parminder is so quick to 
point out.

So what do we do?

Well the recent UNHLPDC came up with some sensible structural 
suggestions, many of them building on IGF foundations. But as that 
effort involved the World Economic Forum as well as the UN substantial 
sections of civil society will reject any such directions on ideological 
grounds without discussion as to whether they might provide a sensible 
path forward.

I dont expect we will ever see agreement among civil society groups as 
to a single perfect model for addressing these issues, so why bother 
trying?

Would it not be better for us to turn our attention to efforts we can 
make to contribute to the debate by highlighting the importance of such 
issues, without us having to come to some unlikely total agreement as to 
the perfect structure to deal with them before we take the smallest 
action or adopt the simplest statement?

Ian

------ Original Message ------
From: "parminder" <parminder at itforchange.net>
To: "Ian Peter" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>; "Mueller, Milton L" 
<milton at gatech.edu>; "governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
Sent: 4/10/2019 10:52:33 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Facebook’s Oversight Board: A toothless 
Supreme Court?

>I remember how many years back people on this list, and I can 
>distinctly recall my friend Bertrand de la Chapelle for instance 
>advocate this , that, and I paraphrase, facebook 'community' itself is 
>a distinct social and perhaps political entity, and how we should focus 
>on its community self governance and so on ..... These, what we talk 
>about now, are chicken coming home to roost .... We propagated this 
>lawless digital world of self-regulation and big corporation vetoes for 
>quite a long time. Why rue it now...
>
>Yes, some politicians may be making the right notes, but what notes is 
>the IG civil society making, still!
>
>My ironical comments - and I apologise for that -- are towards the 
>practical purpose of exhorting the IG civil society to make a real and 
>strong reassessment of what their single-minded devotionto just one 
>thing of multi-stakeholderism and self-regulation has brought the world 
>to, and what amends can we make at this stage. We bear a responsibility 
>to the world.
>
>parminder
>
>
>
>On 04/10/19 2:59 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>>[IGP Announce] Facebook’s Oversight Board: A toothless Supreme Court?
>>Well, hardly a supreme court!
>>
>>From what I read this body just looks at one issue - content 
>>moderation. This is often a culture-specific issue - what should be 
>>taken down in some cultures is perfectly OK in many others. Good luck 
>>to them in achieving anything more than the decades of debate on this 
>>subject have. Where there is global agreement on offensive content, I 
>>am not sure this board will be able to add any value.
>>
>>But thats hardly the point. Facebook will claim that this is an 
>>example of how it is being consultative and involving of its 
>>community, and how this makes it a model corporate player. People will 
>>buy this spin, and issues which Facebook refuses to address through 
>>this or any other body such as data monetisation and other uses of 
>>personal data will be swept under the carpet and forgotten - at least 
>>in the FB spin.
>>
>>I think the question for us is how we keep the bigger issues from 
>>being forgotten in this context. I hear one US presidential hopeful 
>>(Eliz abeth Warren) is raising the subjects, but some powerful Wall 
>>Street based Democrat financial supporters are threatening not to back 
>>her because of this.
>>
>>Data  monetisation and surveillance capitalism are big issues not 
>>being addressed adequately anywhere yet. I hope we can raise this 
>>issue effectively.
>>
>>Ian Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>------ Original Message ------
>>From: "Mueller, Milton L" <milton at gatech.edu>
>>To: "governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>Sent: 3/10/2019 11:56:10 PM
>>Subject: [governance] FW: Facebook’s Oversight Board: A toothless 
>>Supreme Court?
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Internet Governance Alert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Facebook’s Oversight Board: A toothless Supreme Court? 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=7550618346&e=c98d2e287c>
>>>By David Morar on Oct 02, 2019 06:24 pm
>>>
>>>
>>>A week and a half ago Facebook released its final charter for the 
>>>Oversight Board it intends to create to tackle its content moderation 
>>>problems. The charter spells out exactly how it would work, who would 
>>>be on it and what its responsibilities are. CNET has a good basic 
>>>description of what the board would […]
>>>
>>>The post Facebook’s Oversight Board: A toothless Supreme Court? 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=4690e43278&e=c98d2e287c> 
>>>appeared first on Internet Governance Project 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=02bfa55642&e=c98d2e287c>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>READ MORE 
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>>>Wait for it: IGP study on the political economy of DoH 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=b08ffbf3d0&e=c98d2e287c>
>>>Just the facts? Building an independent attribution institution 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=c04a85df39&e=c98d2e287c>
>>>The Summer of routing leaks, and good MANRS 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=a29e989e37&e=c98d2e287c>
>>>More Debate about Social Media’s Impact on Society 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=cd2bfea943&e=c98d2e287c>
>>>Are Indictments in Absentia an Effective Deterrent for Cyber-Attacks? 
>>><https://internetgovernance.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=be001c22ec8bec5d0a255823c&id=31473a16f8&e=c98d2e287c>
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