[governance] [bestbits] Nominations for IGF closing and opening speakers

[Seth Johnson]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:05 PM, Seth Johnson <seth.p.johnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Nick: I think balance is not often really a zero sum analysis, not
> when in policy discussions.  Almost nobody in a policy discussion is
> actually thinking or engaged like that.  It's not a bucket of water,
> or nobody would be engaged in any sort of creative way.  Rather,
> they'll say x needs to be balanced by our side getting something
> "commensurate" y.  Typically making a point of contrast in one of a
> manifold of ways to characterize relations in a policy discussion.


I think there's a sort of endpoint in mind where all parties think
they've sort of covered the space and gotten away taken care of.

But none of this is to the point of what I said, which is really that
you aren't actually sitting at the table unless you've gotten a way to
get the kind of standing we do as regular folks inside our own
countries.  Balance is just a truism stating the weak standard that
applies to we folks in the international arena, since we do not have
any real checks in place (The EU got some recently in the area of
surveillance though!  :-) )  (And then didn't do well on the telecom
front  :-(  )


Seth



> Suresh: A little lost on what you're saying and what not, but
> appreciate that you are playing a diplomatic function.
>
>
> Seth
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Nick Ashton-Hart
> <nashton at consensus.pro> wrote:
>> For what its worth, in some places, I, too don’t think balance is the idea.
>>
>> For instance, starting from the position that in privacy ‘balance’ is the objective means that there’s a finite amount of privacy to go around and it has to get parceled out amongst competing priorities. That’s a zero-sum outlook - why would that be a desirable starting place? Surely what is wanted is a win-win - solutions which are more than the sum of their parts.
>>
>> Just an example, but top of mind for me when I hear about ‘balance’.
>>
>>> On 29 Oct 2015, at 16:29, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> There are balanced positions.  And then there are principled stands - which can still be expressed civilly - and as long as they stick to a consistent set of facts, they are to be respected.
>>>
>>> I wasn’t referring to you at all when I said that part about burning bridges.  However, appeals to balance that I made were those that tend to what I mentioned above.
>>>
>>> I hope I make myself clear - I am not disagreeing with you here.
>>>
>>>> On 29-Oct-2015, at 8:48 PM, Seth Johnson <seth.p.johnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This kind of characterization of what I actually said doesn't help either.  :-)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>>> <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>>>>> Painting ourselves as extremists does our cause a disservice.  And burns bridges with other stakeholder groups that various people try hard to build and maintain.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 29-Oct-2015, at 8:24 PM, Seth Johnson <seth.p.johnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I generally avoid appeals to "balance" in the international arena.
>>>>>> Get some actual fundamental rights first; then balance might be a real
>>>>>> discussion.
>>>
>>>
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