[governance] [bestbits] civil society role in Brazil meeting

Mawaki Chango kichango at gmail.com
Tue Nov 19 16:10:24 EST 2013 

Tim,


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:01 PM, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Mawaki, all below very well said!
>
> May I just add that from a Big Picture perspective this is a enormous
> opportunity to advance the agenda that many in CS have been pushing
> for a decade.  We now have a T&A backed dance partner.  It would be a
> shame not to take advantage of it!
>

That may well be so, I begin to suspect. Tech folks know better; they just
aren't troublemakers. They might have needed an opportunity like this to
cause alignment with the troublemakers ;) and provide some political backup
for (bold?) change. I am willing to give a chance to that hypothesis. Time
will tell... In the meantime the worst we can/should do is to follow the
Reaganian mantra: Trust but verify... in that order, I might add.
Cheers,

mc.



>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Well, I was precisely thinking to John (who always speaks only for
> himself,
> > just like me ;)) and to Adiel, as they responded to Jeremy's reservations
> > about 1net. I think we need to set aside mistrust and other such
> > feelings/perceptions and do our best to make this work, at least until we
> > are proven wrong with hard facts. And frankly, I don't see how this would
> > happen since it has been recognized that we can have our direct channel
> to
> > BR gov for the sole purpose of the BR conference.
> >
> > Unless...
> > Is this about strategizing and positioning for post-BRconference? Hmmm...
> > we'll still have time to assess the situation by then (including the
> meeting
> > outcomes) and decide whether to make IGC or BB the CS counterpart and
> > parallel to 1net or not. Just hoping this is not going to be an open
> season
> > for power grab on the part of CSOs, which might be the only explanation
> > left, in my opinion, for refusing to engage and cooperate with critical
> > non-state stakeholders who would have shown good faith so far.
> >
> > Suresh, why can't we all get along? why am I often under the impression
> that
> > you're trying to nag someone or are those just nudges? oh, then my bad!
> ;)
> >
> > mc.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM, John Curran <jcurran at istaff.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Suresh -
> >>
> >> It is my understanding the 1net initiative is about catalyzing "a
> >> multi-stakeholder movement to
> >> develop, through an open processes, a framework for evolving, broadening
> >> and strengthening
> >> Internet Governance/Cooperation arrangements, and to advocate for its
> >> adoption."   That's
> >> likely to last some number of years (i.e. longer then the Brazil
> meeting)
> >> and (in my opinion), it
> >> cannot be the case that participating in 1net closes opportunity for
> >> expression or participation
> >> elsewhere.
> >>
> >> CS should participate in 1net if believes that the it will advance CS's
> >> goals and mission.
> >>
> >> CS should reach out and seek representation and participation in other
> >> forums as it feels
> >> appropriate.  If the purpose of the letter is "technical community is
> not
> >> civil society, shut
> >> them out", then that does not seem particularly productive to me (but
> it's
> >> still your right to
> >> do so.) If the purpose of a letter is to note that 1net is a fledging
> >> organization that at this
> >> point cannot reasonably be expected to represent CS with respect to the
> >> Brazil meeting
> >> planning activities and that you'd prefer to make CS appointments
> >> directly, then it's worth
> >> making that point.  You could even cc the 1net Steering Committee (if
> one
> >> should ever
> >> come into being); they may even concur with the observation.
> >>
> >> /John
> >>
> >> Disclaimer: Very much my own views, and solely as one Internet citizen
> on
> >> this mailing list.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 19, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 19-Nov-2013, at 21:27, Suresh Ramasubramanian <srs at savitr.info>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh, but that'd probably defeat the whole raison d'etre of that letter :)
> >>
> >> "technical community is not civil society, shut them out" etc etc.
> >>
> >> I say that while echoing multiple calls for transparency.
> >>
> >> --srs (iPad)
> >>
> >> On 19-Nov-2013, at 21:08, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Just to clarify further: I am not against the letter Parminder
> suggested,
> >> just think we could calibrate the language not to dismiss 1net as an
> option
> >> for participation.
> >> M
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Marilia Maciel <
> mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Parminder,
> >>>
> >>> I am writing from ICANN meeting in BA where some folks from CS are also
> >>> arguing for transparency, openness and participation for civil society
> in
> >>> the Brazil process. In a similar way that we raised this in the IGF
> during
> >>> meetings with the Brazilian government in the iStart meeting and in
> other
> >>> spaces, we are doing it here with ICANN staff (Fadi, Thereza, Board
> >>> members), with governments, etc. My very quick thoughts based on the
> present
> >>> situation (things are changing very fast, so I reserve the right to
> change
> >>> opinion) is:
> >>>
> >>> - It is not either/or. Both things should be done together: populate
> and
> >>> participate 1net and continue to organize ourselves in our own spaces,
> >>> sending contributions as IGC, BB or individual organizations. It is not
> >>> clear yet how relevant 1net will be, but there is a possibility it
> will be
> >>> important, so we should not be out of it. We also need a channel to
> exchange
> >>> with other groups and this could be the channel
> >>>
> >>> - We need to make sure that a steering committee of 1 net is
> >>> representative and includes CS reps chosen by CS itself
> >>>
> >>> - 1 net does not exist so far and does not have a committee. What
> people
> >>> are doing is going straight to Fadi or to the Br gov. For communication
> >>> purposes, we have appointed liaisons and should reinforce that these
> people
> >>> are our liaisons for the moment until 1 net exists and until (and if)
> we
> >>> feel comfortable with it.
> >>>
> >>> - Our liaisons need to be included in all meetings
> >>>
> >>> Marília
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:35 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear All
> >>>>
> >>>> There are strong indications from all round that Brazil gov may just
> be
> >>>> taking the easy expedient to channelise non gov participation in the
> Brazil
> >>>> meeting through the 1net structure.... And we know that there was
> >>>> overwhelming feeling among civil society that this should not be
> allowed,
> >>>> and we should have a direct liason. (Civil society outside the active
> IG
> >>>> kind is even more strongly of this view). Are we know willing to come
> out of
> >>>> our paralysis?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lets write a short and succinct letter that we want direct and
> >>>> independent liason to the Brazil meeting and want to independently
> present
> >>>> our liasons directly accountable to us and not through the 1net or
> >>>> whatever...And just forward the four Brazilain names we have as our
> >>>> liasons... We do not have to change/ expand that liason structure.
> Havent
> >>>> the time for that. (and if some people insist, we can always do it a
> bit
> >>>> later). The following is a quick text suggestion...
> >>>>
> >>>> We of the undersigned civil society networks and groups are pleased to
> >>>> note that Brazil has made a formal announcement of a .............
> (put the
> >>>> official name of the meeting here) . We are happy to help the
> government of
> >>>> Brazil organise this meeting and take it to a successful conclusion.
>  We
> >>>> have chosen the below mentioned four persons to be our liason to the
> >>>> Brazilian government and also to be put on any steering committee
> that may
> >>>> be set up.
> >>>>
> >>>> ....
> >>>> ......
> >>>>
> >>>> ......
> >>>> ...... the names of our four Brazilian liasons
> >>>>
> >>>> Please include our above representatives in all meetings, formal
> >>>> presentations etc that will henceforth take place regarding the
> proposed
> >>>> multistakeholder meeting on the future of the Internet..... We will
> route
> >>>> our inputs to the organisation of this meeting through these reps...
> >>>>
> >>>> Signed
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> (ends)
> >>>>
> >>>> parminder
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> >>>> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> >>>>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Marília Maciel
> >>> Pesquisadora Gestora
> >>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
> >>>
> >>> Researcher and Coordinator
> >>> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
> >>> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
> >>>
> >>> DiploFoundation associate
> >>> www.diplomacy.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Marília Maciel
> >> Pesquisadora Gestora
> >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
> >>
> >> Researcher and Coordinator
> >> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
> >> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
> >>
> >> DiploFoundation associate
> >> www.diplomacy.edu
> >>
> >>
> >>
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