[governance] Re: proposal re committee selection
Ian Peter
ian.peter at ianpeter.com
Wed Dec 11 14:05:41 EST 2013
Hi Nnenna,
I should provide an update on your list below to reflect a couple of events in the last few days.
Chat Garcia Ramilo is now the APC representative (it was inappropriate for Anriette to continue on a group which would be considering her name among other nominees)
As of 12 hours ago Sala has withdrawn from the group. (not sure why). We have asked her to name a replacement from IGC, but perhaps seeing there are no other co ordinators of IGC currently that might have to wait for IGC elections (due now) and new co coordinators. In the meantime if IGC can come up with a way to name a replacement that would be gratefully accepted – but with 3 ex-coordinators of IGC on the group I think there is a strong interest to make sure IGC’s interests are heard and considered.
Ian Peter
PS we should be announcing the 1net steering committee nominations shortly.
From: Nnenna Nwakanma
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:50 PM
To: Governance ; Jeanette Hofmann
Subject: Re: [governance] Re: proposal re committee selection
Thanks Jeanette and really happy to have you back and hear you!
Actually, that was the thinking behind the current "Coordinating group on nominations". It is true this did not take long to process. What I know is that there is a kind of cross-networked representation on this group for nominations. It is made up of:
1.. Jeremy of Best Bits (bestbits.net)
2.. Ginger of Diplo (diplointernetgovernance.org)
3.. Robin of the ICANN NCSG (community.icann.org)
4.. Anriette of APC (apc.org)
5.. Sala of IGC - (igcaucus.org)
6.. Ian Peter as Independent Chair
The thinking behind this is that each network rep will circulate any representation need information to their respective networks, then these networks can forward nominations in accordance with the task at hand.
All for now
Nnenna
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Jeanette Hofmann <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
Hi Marília,
One could add a nomcom I suppose. Although it would probabl double the amount of people to be involved in the selection of candidates.
In any case, my point would be to take these conversations off the list and to make the trust for our representatives last a bit longer.
jeanette
Am 11.12.13 02:23, schrieb Marilia Maciel:
Thanks for this, Jeanette. That sounds like a very interesting idea. It
increases the predictability of the process and diminishes recurrent
tensions in the moment of choosing CS representatives. It also helps in
the process of achieving regional and gender balance.
My only suggestion would be that, instead of leaving people who are part
of the pool "insulated" to make this choice, a NomCom could be appointed
to select from the poll, based of thematic affinity, experience, gender
and regional diversity, etc. And the person who is being considered
could say if he or she would accept that particular position or not,
although the idea of "best before" that you mentioned already indicates
the members of the pool are willing to serve. I liked the work of this
diverse NomCom that was just put in place, with IGC, BB, APC, etc,
working together. Maybe a NomCom with a broader scope could be created.
It is possible this particular proposal would not work for ongoing
discussions of representatives, but it is an idea to discuss, refine and
consider for the next selection processes in my opinion.
Marília
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Jeanette Hofmann <jeanette at wzb.eu
<mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu>> wrote:
There seems to be a flooding of committees at the moment, and we
have no way of knowing how important each of them will be. Moreover,
we have no way of knowing what specific stances the people we are
considered as representatives will take up on the issues addressed.
Still it seems we make a lot of a fuss on procedures for nominating
them.
Here is a practical proposal for simplifying the process and
creating more room for substantive discussion:
Lets create a balanced pool of people who enjoy respect and trust on
the various lists, balanced in terms of gender and region. With such
a pool of people in place, we can leave the question of who
participates in what venue, or more precisely, who is proposed to
join a given committee, to that very pool of people. The price the
people have to pay for being among these talented few is going again
and again through the torture of selecting the best candidates for
each individual job.
Each request for cs representation would be forwarded to this pool.
The pool would be given a "best before" time stamp of, say, 18 or 24
months.
jeanette
Am 10.12.13 17:32, schrieb Marilia Maciel:
I'm sorry, but to me this discussion does not reflect fundamental
divergence of views with any of the names - Bill, Milton or
Anriette -
and it is certainly not about lack of trust. The underpinning reason
here is not a disagreement among CS people, it is a disagreement
with
how the HL panel matter has been conducted.
Do we need one HL panel? Many ppl think we dont, yet we have it.
Since
we have it, do we have space for CS? No, there is an appalling
lack of
CS representation. "Then give us names", they said. And we
engaged in a
process to do it, because we want to be constructive and to
participate.
Just to see that effort being disregarded without any convincing
explanation. To my knowledge, we will not have any
representative there
to convey any substantial message that we wish to convey. Bill is
invited as expert. What bothers me is the feeling that CS - and all
organizations that participated in the NonCom process - were
made fool
in a way. If they wanted experts, not CS representatives, why not be
clear about it? Sometimes a blunt no is better than a
unfulfilled yes.
With that I am not saying that I do not agree with Jeanette and
George.
I think we are missing the point of the most important thing, the
substance. Then, let's unbury Andrew's thread about substance,
answer
the survey (deadline today) and move on with concrete stuff, as
soon as
we have this compilation/mapping of replies back. But this present
thread is about "HL and CS reps". So I think it is
understandable that
we are talking about process. Process is all we have to talk about
without knowing not even what the agenda is, and without having
an idea
of how to contribute.
Anyway, reinforcing previous suggestions to communicate
concerns, I rest
my case about this.
Marília
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:58 PM, George Sadowsky
<george.sadowsky at gmail.com <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com>
<mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.__com
<mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com>>> wrote:
I strongly share Jeanette's opinion.
Representatives of civil society causes (RCSC) (that
characterization typifies many of the people on the list, I
think)
have both positive messages and concerns. The positive
messages are
those that many of us automatically subscribe to when they are
expressed at the highest level, such as 'freedom of expression.
These are positive messages.
The concerns come because such desired states are often
weakened by
others, typically by governments but also by certain trends
in other
sectors. Hence the need, often expressed by RCSCs to be
'at the
table' with other sectors, comes from the possibility that
these
positions will be eroded, consciously or unconsciously, by
other
sectors. The desire to be included is a quite understandable
reaction to that possibility.
But what I don't understand is the intense internal process and
disputes regarding who gets to represent a group that appears
homogeneous at the top level. Is the homogeneity
superficial? If
so, it would be more useful to explore and understand the
differences within the RCSC. Is the dispute based upon
ideological
purity of the process for selection? That seems
counterproductive
and generally a waste of time to me. Is the dispute based
upon lack
of trust among group members? Are there other reasons. Is the
representation process an end in itself, regardless of its
effect
upon pursuing other CS goals. If so, then perhaps this
should be
reconstituted as a political science theory group.
It seems to me that rather than spending so much time
discussing and
debating representation issues, it would be more useful to
discuss
why representation issues are so important, often IMO to the
detriment of working on real civil society issues.
I'm with Jeanette. Concentrate upon issues, and that means
areas of
agreement and disagreement with other sectors as well as
within the
RCSC community. Disputes about representation seem
unproductive,
unless they imply unaddressed issues within the community.
If so,
it surely seems more productive to address them directly
rather than
through this proxy dispute based on representation.
George
On Dec 10, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> I fully agree with Rafik's concern. In fact, both the
IGC and the
> bestbits list seem to have become rather obsessed with
filling
positions
> on various committtees.
>
> In another message from last week that probably got lost
or still
awaits
> the moderator's approvement, I noticed a growing madness
about
committee
> positions and other appointments which is more or less
pushing aside
> the debate over issues and opinions.
>
> Besides, I also think that a distinction should be made
between
> appointed experts and stakeholder representatives.
Generally, I
wished
> we paid less attention to the issue of representatives and
focused more
> on the message we want to convey.
>
> jeanette
>
> Am 10.12.13 14:49, schrieb Rafik Dammak:
>> Hello,dfasfd
>>
>> I am wondering if we are not giving too much weight to
HLM than it
>> should be and doing for it a free promotion!
honestly, I was
not in
>> favour of the ICANN strategic panels since they are not
bottom-up,
>> formed by handpicked members and bypassing the usual
process. I
found
>> now that we want badly to be in that high level panel
and making it
>> relevant and maybe even giving it a big role for Brazil
meeting!
hope
>> that we wont regret such decision later.
>>
>> we can ask for giving inputs, openness etc but that will be
definitely
>> depending to the will ICANN/WEF/Anneberg Foundation and
there
won't be
>> any guarantee on how they process the inputs or how it
will be
included
>> in their deliverable. everything is ad-hoc there and any
decision will
>> depend to the will of the organisers. why shall we
encourage
such process?
>>
>> Back to the previous discussion, Bill was invited as
expert and
the name
>> of panel is not "an expert group" , I don't see the
confusion here.
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/10 Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com
<mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
<mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.__com
<mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.__com
<mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
<mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.__com
<mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>>>>
>>
>> Milton is right about the (lack of) process. On the
one hand,
it is
>> positive that we have someone we trust there. On the
other
hand, it
>> does seem that they are including who they want and
how they
want,
>> totally disregarding the serious process we have been
conducting to
>> appoint names.
>>
>> I think that a letter signed by all organizations that
participated
>> in the nomination process should be sent to ICANN
and ideally
read
>> during the meeting, expressing our frustration and
adding some
>> concrete suggestions. I come back to the points I
made earlier:
>> - the agenda of the HL panel meetings should be
publicized in
advance
>> - channels to receive inputs (procedural or substantive)
should be
>> created or clarified
>> - their meetings should be open to observers (like the
meetings of
>> the CSTD ECWG)
>> - Reports of the meetings should be published. They
could follow
>> Chatam House rules
>> And
>> - CS representatives (names), who were appointed
following an
>> internal and legitimate process carried out by CS,
should be
>> immediately included in the HL panel to ensure
minimum CS
>> representation.
>>
>> Marília
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Norbert Bollow
<nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>
<mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>
>> <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>
<mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>>> wrote:
>>
>> Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu
<mailto:mueller at syr.edu>
<mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>>
<mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>
<mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>>>> wrote:
>>
>> > The distinction between Bill's appointment as an
expert and
>> the CS
>> > groups' nomination of people to be on the
committee is
not so
>> clear
>> > to me, and we cannot assume that it is clear
to Fadi,
especially
>> > since the London meeting of the group starts
in two days.
>> Either one
>> > could be seen as Fadi making a concession to CS
demands to be
>> > included in the HLLM, and he may consider one
to be a
>> substitute for
>> > the other. At this stage, I would assume that if
there is no
>> > appointment of another CS rep to the HL Panel
by now, that
>> there will
>> > not be one at all, and Bill is all we will be
given.
The fact
>> that
>> > Bill's appointment came from a random F2F hallway
meeting isn't
>> > something that inspires confidence, is it?
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Especially given that there was in fact a
coordinated
civil society
>> process through which names have been put forward.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>>
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>> --
>> *Marília Maciel*
>> Pesquisadora Gestora
>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
>>
>> Researcher and Coordinator
>> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
>> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
>>
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<http://www.diplomacy.edu>
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>>
>>
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>>
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Researcher and Coordinator
Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
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www.diplomacy.edu <http://www.diplomacy.edu>
<http://www.diplomacy.edu>
--
*Marília Maciel*
Pesquisadora Gestora
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
Researcher and Coordinator
Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
DiploFoundation associate
www.diplomacy.edu <http://www.diplomacy.edu>
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