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<DIV>Hi Nnenna,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I should provide an update on your list below to reflect a couple of events
in the last few days. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chat Garcia Ramilo is now the APC representative (it was inappropriate for
Anriette to continue on a group which would be considering her name among other
nominees)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As of 12 hours ago Sala has withdrawn from the group. (not sure why). We
have asked her to name a replacement from IGC, but perhaps seeing there are no
other co ordinators of IGC currently that might have to wait for IGC elections
(due now) and new co coordinators. In the meantime if IGC can come up with a way
to name a replacement that would be gratefully accepted – but with 3
ex-coordinators of IGC on the group I think there is a strong interest to make
sure IGC’s interests are heard and considered.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ian Peter</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PS we should be announcing the 1net steering committee nominations shortly.
</DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=nnenna75@gmail.com
href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com">Nnenna Nwakanma</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:50 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=governance@lists.igcaucus.org
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">Governance</A> ; <A
title=jeanette@wzb.eu href="mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu">Jeanette Hofmann</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [governance] Re: proposal re committee
selection</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>Thanks Jeanette and really happy to have you back and hear
you!<BR></DIV>Actually, that was the thinking behind the current "Coordinating
group on nominations". It is true this did not take long to process. What
I know is that there is a kind of cross-networked representation on this group
for nominations. It is made up of:<BR>
<OL>
<LI>Jeremy of Best Bits (<A href="http://bestbits.net">bestbits.net</A>)<BR>
<LI>Ginger of Diplo (<A
href="http://diplointernetgovernance.org">diplointernetgovernance.org</A>)<BR>
<LI>Robin of the ICANN NCSG (<A
href="http://community.icann.org">community.icann.org</A>)<BR>
<LI>Anriette of APC (<A href="http://apc.org">apc.org</A>)<BR>
<LI>Sala of IGC - (<A href="http://igcaucus.org">igcaucus.org</A>)<BR>
<LI>Ian Peter as Independent Chair</LI></OL>
<P>The thinking behind this is that each network rep will circulate any
representation need information to their respective networks, then these
networks can forward nominations in accordance with the task at hand.</P>
<P>All for now</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Nnenna<BR></P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Jeanette Hofmann <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu"
target=_blank>jeanette@wzb.eu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Hi
Marília,<BR><BR><BR>One could add a nomcom I suppose. Although it would
probabl double the amount of people to be involved in the selection of
candidates.<BR>In any case, my point would be to take these conversations off
the list and to make the trust for our representatives last a bit
longer.<BR><BR>jeanette<BR><BR>Am 11.12.13 02:23, schrieb Marilia Maciel:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>Thanks for this, Jeanette. That sounds like a very interesting idea.
It<BR>increases the predictability of the process and diminishes
recurrent<BR>tensions in the moment of choosing CS representatives. It also
helps in<BR>the process of achieving regional and gender balance.<BR><BR>My
only suggestion would be that, instead of leaving people who are part<BR>of
the pool "insulated" to make this choice, a NomCom could be appointed<BR>to
select from the poll, based of thematic affinity, experience, gender<BR>and
regional diversity, etc. And the person who is being considered<BR>could say
if he or she would accept that particular position or not,<BR>although the
idea of "best before" that you mentioned already indicates<BR>the
members of the pool are willing to serve. I liked the work of
this<BR>diverse NomCom that was just put in place, with IGC, BB, APC,
etc,<BR>working together. Maybe a NomCom with a broader scope could be
created.<BR><BR>It is possible this particular proposal would not work for
ongoing<BR>discussions of representatives, but it is an idea to discuss,
refine and<BR>consider for the next selection processes in my
opinion.<BR><BR>Marília<BR><BR><BR>On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Jeanette
Hofmann <<A href="mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu"
target=_blank>jeanette@wzb.eu</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><mailto:<A href="mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu"
target=_blank>jeanette@wzb.eu</A>>>
wrote:<BR><BR><BR> There seems to be a flooding of
committees at the moment, and we<BR> have no way of
knowing how important each of them will be. Moreover,<BR>
we have no way of knowing what specific stances the people we
are<BR> considered as representatives will take up on the
issues addressed.<BR> Still it seems we make a lot of a
fuss on procedures for nominating<BR>
them.<BR><BR> Here is a practical proposal for simplifying
the process and<BR> creating more room for substantive
discussion:<BR><BR> Lets create a balanced pool of people
who enjoy respect and trust on<BR> the various lists,
balanced in terms of gender and region. With such<BR> a
pool of people in place, we can leave the question of
who<BR> participates in what venue, or more precisely, who
is proposed to<BR> join a given committee, to that very
pool of people. The price the<BR> people have to pay for
being among these talented few is going again<BR> and
again through the torture of selecting the best candidates
for<BR> each individual job.<BR><BR>
Each request for cs representation would be forwarded to this
pool.<BR> The pool would be given a "best before" time
stamp of, say, 18 or 24<BR>
months.<BR><BR> jeanette<BR><BR> Am
10.12.13 17:32, schrieb Marilia
Maciel:<BR><BR> I'm sorry, but to
me this discussion does not reflect
fundamental<BR> divergence of
views with any of the names - Bill, Milton
or<BR> Anriette
-<BR> and it is certainly not
about lack of trust. The underpinning
reason<BR> here is not a
disagreement among CS people, it is a
disagreement<BR>
with<BR> how the HL panel matter
has been conducted.<BR><BR> Do we
need one HL panel? Many ppl think we dont, yet we have
it.<BR>
Since<BR> we have it, do we have
space for CS? No, there is an
appalling<BR> lack
of<BR> CS representation. "Then
give us names", they said. And
we<BR> engaged in
a<BR> process to do it, because we
want to be constructive and to<BR>
participate.<BR> Just to see that
effort being disregarded without any
convincing<BR> explanation. To my
knowledge, we will not have
any<BR> representative
there<BR> to convey any
substantial message that we wish to convey. Bill
is<BR> invited as expert. What
bothers me is the feeling that CS - and
all<BR> organizations that
participated in the NonCom process -
were<BR> made
fool<BR> in a way. If they wanted
experts, not CS representatives, why not
be<BR> clear about it? Sometimes a
blunt no is better than a<BR>
unfulfilled yes.<BR><BR> With that
I am not saying that I do not agree with Jeanette
and<BR>
George.<BR> I think we are missing
the point of the most important thing,
the<BR> substance. Then, let's
unbury Andrew's thread about
substance,<BR>
answer<BR> the survey (deadline
today) and move on with concrete stuff,
as<BR> soon
as<BR> we have this
compilation/mapping of replies back. But this
present<BR> thread is about "HL
and CS reps". So I think it is<BR>
understandable that<BR> we are
talking about process. Process is all we have to talk
about<BR> without knowing not even
what the agenda is, and without
having<BR> an
idea<BR> of how to
contribute.<BR><BR> Anyway,
reinforcing previous suggestions to
communicate<BR> concerns, I
rest<BR> my case about
this.<BR><BR>
Marília<BR><BR><BR> On Tue, Dec
10, 2013 at 1:58 PM, George
Sadowsky<BR> <<A
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com"
target=_blank>george.sadowsky@gmail.com</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com"
target=_blank>george.sadowsky@gmail.<U></U>com</A>><BR></DIV></DIV>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail."
target=_blank>george.sadowsky@gmail.</A><U></U>__com
<DIV>
<DIV><BR> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com"
target=_blank>george.sadowsky@gmail.<U></U>com</A>>>>
wrote:<BR><BR>
I strongly share Jeanette's
opinion.<BR><BR>
Representatives of civil society causes (RCSC)
(that<BR>
characterization typifies many of the people on the list,
I<BR>
think)<BR>
have both positive messages and concerns. The
positive<BR> messages
are<BR>
those that many of us automatically subscribe to when they
are<BR>
expressed at the highest level, such as 'freedom of
expression.<BR>
These are positive
messages.<BR><BR>
The concerns come because such desired states are
often<BR> weakened
by<BR>
others, typically by governments but also by certain
trends<BR> in
other<BR>
sectors. Hence the need, often expressed by RCSCs to
be<BR> 'at
the<BR>
table' with other sectors, comes from the possibility
that<BR>
these<BR>
positions will be eroded, consciously or unconsciously,
by<BR>
other<BR>
sectors. The desire to be included is a quite
understandable<BR>
reaction to that
possibility.<BR><BR>
But what I don't understand is the intense internal process
and<BR>
disputes regarding who gets to represent a group that
appears<BR>
homogeneous at the top level. Is the
homogeneity<BR> superficial?
If<BR>
so, it would be more useful to explore and understand
the<BR>
differences within the RCSC. Is the dispute based
upon<BR>
ideological<BR>
purity of the process for selection? That
seems<BR>
counterproductive<BR>
and generally a waste of time to me. Is the dispute
based<BR> upon
lack<BR>
of trust among group members? Are there other reasons. Is
the<BR>
representation process an end in itself, regardless of
its<BR>
effect<BR>
upon pursuing other CS goals. If so, then perhaps
this<BR> should
be<BR>
reconstituted as a political science theory
group.<BR><BR>
It seems to me that rather than spending so much
time<BR> discussing
and<BR>
debating representation issues, it would be more useful
to<BR>
discuss<BR>
why representation issues are so important, often IMO to
the<BR>
detriment of working on real civil society
issues.<BR><BR>
I'm with Jeanette. Concentrate upon issues, and that
means<BR> areas
of<BR>
agreement and disagreement with other sectors as well
as<BR> within
the<BR>
RCSC community. Disputes about representation
seem<BR>
unproductive,<BR>
unless they imply unaddressed issues within the
community.<BR> If
so,<BR>
it surely seems more productive to address them
directly<BR> rather
than<BR>
through this proxy dispute based on
representation.<BR><BR>
George<BR><BR><BR>
On Dec 10, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Jeanette Hofmann
wrote:<BR><BR>
> I fully agree with Rafik's concern. In fact, both
the<BR> IGC and
the<BR>
> bestbits list seem to have become rather obsessed
with<BR>
filling<BR>
positions<BR>
> on various
committtees.<BR>
><BR>
> In another message from last week that probably got
lost<BR> or
still<BR>
awaits<BR>
> the moderator's approvement, I noticed a growing
madness<BR>
about<BR>
committee<BR>
> positions and other appointments which is more or
less<BR> pushing
aside<BR>
> the debate over issues and
opinions.<BR>
><BR>
> Besides, I also think that a distinction should be
made<BR>
between<BR>
> appointed experts and stakeholder
representatives.<BR> Generally,
I<BR>
wished<BR>
> we paid less attention to the issue of representatives
and<BR>
focused
more<BR>
> on the message we want to
convey.<BR>
><BR>
>
jeanette<BR>
><BR>
> Am 10.12.13 14:49, schrieb Rafik
Dammak:<BR>
>>
Hello,dfasfd<BR>
>><BR>
>> I am wondering if we are not giving too much weight
to<BR> HLM than
it<BR>
>> should be and doing for it a free
promotion!<BR> honestly, I
was<BR>
not
in<BR>
>> favour of the ICANN strategic panels since they are
not<BR>
bottom-up,<BR>
>> formed by handpicked members and bypassing the
usual<BR> process.
I<BR>
found<BR>
>> now that we want badly to be in that high level
panel<BR> and making
it<BR>
>> relevant and maybe even giving it a big role for
Brazil<BR>
meeting!<BR>
hope<BR>
>> that we wont regret such decision
later.<BR>
>><BR>
>> we can ask for giving inputs, openness etc but that will
be<BR>
definitely<BR>
>> depending to the will ICANN/WEF/Anneberg Foundation
and<BR>
there<BR>
won't
be<BR>
>> any guarantee on how they process the inputs or how
it<BR> will
be<BR>
included<BR>
>> in their deliverable. everything is ad-hoc there and
any<BR>
decision
will<BR>
>> depend to the will of the organisers. why shall
we<BR>
encourage<BR>
such
process?<BR>
>><BR>
>> Back to the previous discussion, Bill was invited
as<BR> expert
and<BR>
the
name<BR>
>> of panel is not "an expert group" , I don't see
the<BR> confusion
here.<BR>
>><BR>
>>
Rafik<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> 2013/12/10 Marilia Maciel <<A
href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.com</A><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.<U></U>com</A>><BR></DIV></DIV>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail."
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.</A>__<U></U>com<BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.<U></U>com</A>>><BR>
>> <mailto:<A href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail."
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.</A>__<U></U>com<BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.<U></U>com</A>><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail."
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.</A>__<U></U>com
<DIV>
<DIV><BR> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mariliamaciel@gmail.<U></U>com</A>>>>><BR>
>><BR>
>> Milton is right about the (lack of) process. On
the<BR> one
hand,<BR>
it
is<BR>
>> positive that we have someone we trust there. On
the<BR>
other<BR>
hand,
it<BR>
>> does seem that they are including who they want
and<BR> how
they<BR>
want,<BR>
>> totally disregarding the serious process we have
been<BR>
conducting
to<BR>
>> appoint
names.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I think that a letter signed by all organizations
that<BR>
participated<BR>
>> in the nomination process should be sent to
ICANN<BR> and
ideally<BR>
read<BR>
>> during the meeting, expressing our frustration
and<BR> adding
some<BR>
>> concrete suggestions. I come back to the points
I<BR> made
earlier:<BR>
>> - the agenda of the HL panel meetings should
be<BR> publicized
in<BR>
advance<BR>
>> - channels to receive inputs (procedural or
substantive)<BR>
should
be<BR>
>> created or
clarified<BR>
>> - their meetings should be open to observers
(like
the<BR>
meetings
of<BR>
>> the CSTD
ECWG)<BR>
>> - Reports of the meetings should be published.
They<BR> could
follow<BR>
>> Chatam House
rules<BR>
>>
And<BR>
>> - CS representatives (names), who were
appointed<BR> following
an<BR>
>> internal and legitimate process carried out by
CS,<BR> should
be<BR>
>> immediately included in the HL panel to
ensure<BR> minimum
CS<BR>
>>
representation.<BR>
>><BR>
>>
Marília<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Norbert
Bollow<BR> <<A
href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch"
target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A>><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch"
target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A>>><BR>
>> <mailto:<A href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch"
target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A> <mailto:<A href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch"
target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A>><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch"
target=_blank>nb@bollow.ch</A>>>>>
wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Milton L Mueller <<A
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A>><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A>>><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A>><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target=_blank>mueller@syr.edu</A>>>>>
wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> > The
distinction between Bill's appointment as
an<BR>
expert
and<BR>
>> the
CS<BR>
>> > groups'
nomination of people to be on
the<BR> committee
is<BR>
not
so<BR>
>>
clear<BR>
>> > to me, and we
cannot assume that it is clear<BR>
to
Fadi,<BR>
especially<BR>
>> > since the
London meeting of the group
starts<BR> in two
days.<BR>
>> Either
one<BR>
>> > could be seen
as Fadi making a concession to
CS<BR>
demands to
be<BR>
>> > included in
the HLLM, and he may consider
one<BR> to be
a<BR>
>> substitute
for<BR>
>> > the
other. At this stage, I would assume that
if<BR>
there is
no<BR>
>> > appointment of
another CS rep to the HL Panel<BR>
by now,
that<BR>
>> there
will<BR>
>> > not be one at
all, and Bill is all we will
be<BR>
given.<BR>
The
fact<BR>
>>
that<BR>
>> > Bill's
appointment came from a random F2F
hallway<BR>
meeting
isn't<BR>
>> > something that
inspires confidence, is
it?<BR>
>><BR>
>>
+1<BR>
>><BR>
>> Especially given that
there was in fact a<BR>
coordinated<BR>
civil
society<BR>
>> process through which
names have been put
forward.<BR>
>><BR>
>>
Greetings,<BR>
>>
Norbert<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR></DIV></DIV>
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>>
--<BR>
>> *Marília
Maciel*<BR>
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Rio<BR>
>><BR>
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--<BR> *Marília
Maciel*<BR> Pesquisadora
Gestora<BR> Centro de Tecnologia e
Sociedade - FGV Direito
Rio<BR><BR> Researcher and
Coordinator<BR> Center for
Technology & Society - FGV Law
School<BR> <A
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DiploFoundation associate<BR> <A
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<<A href="http://www.diplomacy.edu"
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<DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>*Marília Maciel*<BR>Pesquisadora
Gestora<BR>Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito
Rio<BR><BR>Researcher and Coordinator<BR>Center for Technology & Society
- FGV Law School<BR><A href="http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts"
target=_blank>http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts</A><BR><BR>DiploFoundation
associate<BR><A href="http://www.diplomacy.edu"
target=_blank>www.diplomacy.edu</A> <<A href="http://www.diplomacy.edu"
target=_blank>http://www.diplomacy.edu</A>><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>____________________________________________________________<BR>You
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