[governance] Re: proposal re committee selection

Jeanette Hofmann jeanette at wzb.eu
Thu Dec 12 10:58:23 EST 2013


Hi Nnenna, thank you for your kind words, which is somewhat rare on this 
list.
The coordination group is not quite what I had in mind. I was thinking 
of a group whose members are nominated by the list. The members should 
have our trust to represent us well but also to be fair with each other 
in choosing people for specific committees or similar jobs.

jeanette

Am 11.12.2013 13:50, schrieb Nnenna Nwakanma:
> Thanks Jeanette and really happy to have you back and hear you!
> Actually, that was the thinking behind the current "Coordinating group
> on nominations". It is true this did not take long to process.  What I
> know is that there is a kind of cross-networked representation on this
> group for nominations.  It is made up of:
>
>  1. Jeremy of Best Bits (bestbits.net <http://bestbits.net>)
>  2. Ginger of Diplo (diplointernetgovernance.org
>     <http://diplointernetgovernance.org>)
>  3. Robin of the ICANN NCSG (community.icann.org
>     <http://community.icann.org>)
>  4. Anriette of APC (apc.org <http://apc.org>)
>  5. Sala of IGC -  (igcaucus.org <http://igcaucus.org>)
>  6. Ian Peter as Independent  Chair
>
> The thinking behind this is that each network rep will circulate any
> representation need information to their respective networks, then these
> networks can forward nominations in accordance with the task at hand.
>
> All for now
>
>
> Nnenna
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Jeanette Hofmann <jeanette at wzb.eu
> <mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Marília,
>
>
>     One could add a nomcom I suppose. Although it would probabl double
>     the amount of people to be involved in the selection of candidates.
>     In any case, my point would be to take these conversations off the
>     list and to make the trust for our representatives last a bit longer.
>
>     jeanette
>
>     Am 11.12.13 02:23, schrieb Marilia Maciel:
>
>         Thanks for this, Jeanette. That sounds like a very interesting
>         idea. It
>         increases the predictability of the process and diminishes recurrent
>         tensions in the moment of choosing CS representatives. It also
>         helps in
>         the process of achieving regional and gender balance.
>
>         My only suggestion would be that, instead of leaving people who
>         are part
>         of the pool "insulated" to make this choice, a NomCom could be
>         appointed
>         to select from the poll, based of thematic affinity, experience,
>         gender
>         and regional diversity, etc. And the person who is being considered
>         could say if he or she would accept that particular position or not,
>         although the idea of  "best before" that you mentioned already
>         indicates
>         the members of the pool are willing to serve. I liked the work
>         of this
>         diverse NomCom that was just put in place, with IGC, BB, APC, etc,
>         working together. Maybe a NomCom with a broader scope could be
>         created.
>
>         It is possible this particular proposal would not work for ongoing
>         discussions of representatives, but it is an idea to discuss,
>         refine and
>         consider for the next selection processes in my opinion.
>
>         Marília
>
>
>         On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Jeanette Hofmann
>         <jeanette at wzb.eu <mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu>
>         <mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu <mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu>>> wrote:
>
>
>              There seems to be a flooding of committees at the moment,
>         and we
>              have no way of knowing how important each of them will be.
>         Moreover,
>              we have no way of knowing what specific stances the people
>         we are
>              considered as representatives will take up on the issues
>         addressed.
>              Still it seems we make a lot of a fuss on procedures for
>         nominating
>              them.
>
>              Here is a practical proposal for simplifying the process and
>              creating more room for substantive discussion:
>
>              Lets create a balanced pool of people who enjoy respect and
>         trust on
>              the various lists, balanced in terms of gender and region.
>         With such
>              a pool of people in place, we can leave the question of who
>              participates in what venue, or more precisely, who is
>         proposed to
>              join a given committee, to that very pool of people. The
>         price the
>              people have to pay for being among these talented few is
>         going again
>              and again through the torture of selecting the best
>         candidates for
>              each individual job.
>
>              Each request for cs representation would be forwarded to
>         this pool.
>              The pool would be given a "best before" time stamp of, say,
>         18 or 24
>              months.
>
>              jeanette
>
>              Am 10.12.13 17:32, schrieb Marilia Maciel:
>
>                  I'm sorry, but to me this discussion does not reflect
>         fundamental
>                  divergence of views with any of the names - Bill, Milton or
>                  Anriette -
>                  and it is certainly not about lack of trust. The
>         underpinning reason
>                  here is not a disagreement among CS people, it is a
>         disagreement
>                  with
>                  how the HL panel matter has been conducted.
>
>                  Do we need one HL panel? Many ppl think we dont, yet we
>         have it.
>                  Since
>                  we have it, do we have space for CS? No, there is an
>         appalling
>                  lack of
>                  CS representation. "Then give us names", they said. And we
>                  engaged in a
>                  process to do it, because we want to be constructive and to
>                  participate.
>                  Just to see that effort being disregarded without any
>         convincing
>                  explanation. To my knowledge, we will not have any
>                  representative there
>                  to convey any substantial message that we wish to
>         convey. Bill is
>                  invited as expert. What bothers me is the feeling that
>         CS - and all
>                  organizations that participated in the NonCom process -
>         were
>                  made fool
>                  in a way. If they wanted experts, not CS
>         representatives, why not be
>                  clear about it? Sometimes a blunt no is better than a
>                  unfulfilled yes.
>
>                  With that I am not saying that I do not agree with
>         Jeanette and
>                  George.
>                  I think we are missing the point of the most important
>         thing, the
>                  substance. Then, let's unbury Andrew's thread about
>         substance,
>                  answer
>                  the survey (deadline today) and move on with concrete
>         stuff, as
>                  soon as
>                  we have this compilation/mapping of replies back. But
>         this present
>                  thread is about "HL and CS reps". So I think it is
>                  understandable that
>                  we are talking about process. Process is all we have to
>         talk about
>                  without knowing not even what the agenda is, and
>         without having
>                  an idea
>                  of how to contribute.
>
>                  Anyway, reinforcing previous suggestions to communicate
>                  concerns, I rest
>                  my case about this.
>
>                  Marília
>
>
>                  On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:58 PM, George Sadowsky
>                  <george.sadowsky at gmail.com
>         <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.__com
>         <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com>>
>                  <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.
>         <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.>____com
>
>                  <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.__com
>         <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>
>                       I strongly share Jeanette's opinion.
>
>                       Representatives of civil society causes (RCSC) (that
>                       characterization typifies many of the people on
>         the list, I
>                  think)
>                       have both positive messages and concerns.  The
>         positive
>                  messages are
>                       those that many of us automatically subscribe to
>         when they are
>                       expressed at the highest level, such as 'freedom
>         of expression.
>                         These are positive messages.
>
>                       The concerns come because such desired states are
>         often
>                  weakened by
>                       others, typically by governments but also by
>         certain trends
>                  in other
>                       sectors.  Hence the need, often expressed by RCSCs
>         to be
>                  'at the
>                       table' with other sectors, comes from the
>         possibility that
>                  these
>                       positions will be eroded, consciously or
>         unconsciously, by
>                  other
>                       sectors.  The desire to be included is a quite
>         understandable
>                       reaction to that possibility.
>
>                       But what I don't understand is the intense
>         internal process and
>                       disputes regarding who gets to represent a group
>         that appears
>                       homogeneous at the top level.  Is the homogeneity
>                  superficial?  If
>                       so, it would be more useful to explore and
>         understand the
>                       differences within the RCSC.  Is the dispute based
>         upon
>                  ideological
>                       purity of the process for selection? That seems
>                  counterproductive
>                       and generally a waste of time to me.  Is the
>         dispute based
>                  upon lack
>                       of trust among group members?  Are there other
>         reasons. Is the
>                       representation process an end in itself,
>         regardless of its
>                  effect
>                       upon pursuing other CS goals. If so, then perhaps this
>                  should be
>                       reconstituted as a political science theory group.
>
>                       It seems to me that rather than spending so much time
>                  discussing and
>                       debating representation issues, it would be more
>         useful to
>                  discuss
>                       why representation issues are so important, often
>         IMO to the
>                       detriment of working on real civil society issues.
>
>                       I'm with Jeanette.  Concentrate upon issues, and
>         that means
>                  areas of
>                       agreement and disagreement with other sectors as
>         well as
>                  within the
>                       RCSC community.  Disputes about representation seem
>                  unproductive,
>                       unless they imply unaddressed issues  within the
>         community.
>                    If so,
>                       it surely seems more productive to address them
>         directly
>                  rather than
>                       through this proxy dispute based on representation.
>
>                       George
>
>
>                       On Dec 10, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>
>                        > I fully agree with Rafik's concern. In fact,
>         both the
>                  IGC and the
>                        > bestbits list seem to have become rather
>         obsessed with
>                  filling
>                       positions
>                        > on various committtees.
>                        >
>                        > In another message from last week that probably
>         got lost
>                  or still
>                       awaits
>                        > the moderator's approvement, I noticed a
>         growing madness
>                  about
>                       committee
>                        > positions and other appointments which is more
>         or less
>                    pushing aside
>                        > the debate over issues and opinions.
>                        >
>                        > Besides, I also think that a distinction should
>         be made
>                  between
>                        > appointed experts and stakeholder representatives.
>                  Generally, I
>                       wished
>                        > we paid less attention to the issue of
>         representatives and
>                       focused more
>                        > on the message we want to convey.
>                        >
>                        > jeanette
>                        >
>                        > Am 10.12.13 14:49, schrieb Rafik Dammak:
>                        >> Hello,dfasfd
>                        >>
>                        >> I am wondering if we are not giving too much
>         weight to
>                  HLM than it
>                        >> should  be and doing for it  a free promotion!
>                  honestly, I was
>                       not in
>                        >> favour of the ICANN strategic panels since
>         they are not
>                  bottom-up,
>                        >> formed by handpicked members and bypassing the
>         usual
>                  process. I
>                       found
>                        >> now that we want badly to be in that high
>         level panel
>                  and making it
>                        >> relevant and maybe even giving it a big role
>         for Brazil
>                  meeting!
>                       hope
>                        >> that we wont regret such decision later.
>                        >>
>                        >> we can ask for giving inputs, openness etc but
>         that will be
>                       definitely
>                        >> depending to the will ICANN/WEF/Anneberg
>         Foundation and
>                  there
>                       won't be
>                        >> any guarantee on how they process the inputs
>         or how it
>                  will be
>                       included
>                        >> in their deliverable. everything is ad-hoc
>         there and any
>                       decision will
>                        >> depend to the will of the organisers. why shall we
>                  encourage
>                       such process?
>                        >>
>                        >> Back to the previous discussion, Bill was
>         invited as
>                  expert and
>                       the name
>                        >> of panel is not "an expert group" , I don't
>         see the
>                  confusion here.
>                        >>
>                        >> Rafik
>                        >>
>                        >>
>                        >> 2013/12/10 Marilia Maciel
>         <mariliamaciel at gmail.com <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
>                  <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.__com
>         <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>>
>                       <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.
>         <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.>____com
>                  <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.__com
>         <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>>>
>                        >> <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.
>         <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.>____com
>                  <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.__com
>         <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>>
>                  <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.
>         <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.>____com
>
>                  <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.__com
>         <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>>>>>
>                        >>
>                        >>    Milton is right about the (lack of)
>         process. On the
>                  one hand,
>                       it is
>                        >>    positive that we have someone we trust
>         there. On the
>                  other
>                       hand, it
>                        >>    does seem that they are including who they
>         want and
>                  how they
>                       want,
>                        >>    totally disregarding the serious process we
>         have been
>                       conducting to
>                        >>    appoint names.
>                        >>
>                        >>    I think that a letter signed by all
>         organizations that
>                       participated
>                        >>    in the nomination process should be sent to
>         ICANN
>                  and ideally
>                       read
>                        >>    during the meeting, expressing our
>         frustration and
>                  adding some
>                        >>    concrete suggestions. I come back to the
>         points I
>                  made earlier:
>                        >>    - the agenda of the HL panel meetings should be
>                  publicized in
>                       advance
>                        >>    - channels to receive inputs (procedural or
>         substantive)
>                       should be
>                        >>    created or clarified
>                        >>    - their meetings should be open to
>         observers (like the
>                       meetings of
>                        >>    the CSTD ECWG)
>                        >>    - Reports of the meetings should be
>         published. They
>                  could follow
>                        >>    Chatam House rules
>                        >>    And
>                        >>    - CS representatives (names), who were
>         appointed
>                  following an
>                        >>    internal and legitimate process carried out
>         by CS,
>                  should be
>                        >>    immediately included in the HL panel to ensure
>                  minimum CS
>                        >>    representation.
>                        >>
>                        >>    Marília
>                        >>
>                        >>
>                        >>    On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Norbert Bollow
>                  <nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>
>         <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>
>                       <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>
>         <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>>
>                        >>    <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>
>         <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>
>                  <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>
>         <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>>>> wrote:
>                        >>
>                        >>        Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu
>         <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>
>                  <mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>>
>                       <mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>
>         <mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>>>
>                  <mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>
>         <mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>>
>                       <mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>
>         <mailto:mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>>>>> wrote:
>                        >>
>                        >>         > The distinction between Bill's
>         appointment as an
>                       expert and
>                        >>        the CS
>                        >>         > groups' nomination of people to be
>         on the
>                  committee is
>                       not so
>                        >>        clear
>                        >>         > to me, and we cannot assume that it
>         is clear
>                  to Fadi,
>                       especially
>                        >>         > since the London meeting of the
>         group starts
>                  in two days.
>                        >>        Either one
>                        >>         > could be seen as Fadi making a
>         concession to CS
>                       demands to be
>                        >>         > included in the HLLM, and he may
>         consider one
>                  to be a
>                        >>        substitute for
>                        >>         > the other.  At this stage, I would
>         assume that if
>                       there is no
>                        >>         > appointment of another CS rep to the
>         HL Panel
>                  by now, that
>                        >>        there will
>                        >>         > not be one at all, and Bill is all
>         we will be
>                  given.
>                       The fact
>                        >>        that
>                        >>         > Bill's appointment came from a
>         random F2F hallway
>                       meeting isn't
>                        >>         > something that inspires confidence,
>         is it?
>                        >>
>                        >>        +1
>                        >>
>                        >>        Especially given that there was in fact a
>                  coordinated
>                       civil society
>                        >>        process through which names have been
>         put forward.
>                        >>
>                        >>        Greetings,
>                        >>        Norbert
>                        >>
>                        >>
>
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>                        >>    *Marília Maciel*
>                        >>    Pesquisadora Gestora
>                        >>    Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV
>         Direito Rio
>                        >>
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>                        >>    Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law
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>                  Pesquisadora Gestora
>                  Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
>
>                  Researcher and Coordinator
>                  Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
>         http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
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>         <http://www.diplomacy.edu>
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>         *Marília Maciel*
>         Pesquisadora Gestora
>         Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
>
>         Researcher and Coordinator
>         Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
>         http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
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