[governance] All power should be in the hands of the engineers? (was Re: HLLM in LOndon - CS reps)

[Jean-Christophe Nothias]

Hi Tim,

Big words again. 'Outrageous'... héhé

I leave it to anyone listening to the full session to appreciate the value of what was said. I think I brought to the list interesting (if not shocking) few facts, and thoughts that show the way someone with a few responsibilities in the IG fora is thinking, addressing issues, and recommending to stop the 'counter-revolutionaries' he sees coming against the good 'revolutionaries'. Bas les masques!

Any debate, specially when it comes to governance, should have in mind the idea of 'convergence', at least to find consensus, and ability to work together. The 'not-a-single-thing-of-everything' theory seems to me pretty crypto ideologic, and that is a personal opinion (am I allowed to have one?). 

When George is speaking about a terminology issue - good point to look at-, do we imagine that we can solve this terminology issue by getting more definitions for each single concept, wording, expression ("let blossom the flowers of a thousand definition" says AP)? Is that the way you think a democratic venue should try to move forward, by maintaining a high level of confusion? That in my view is outrageous.

Would Postel, which signature is respectfully and constantly backing your signature, rejoice in a multi-definitions systematic approach for a single word/concept so to keep a never ending debate. Postel was against the waste of time, the waste of bytes, the waste of , and presumably against smoke and fog. The major challenge out of the RFC was to bring clarity for a common culture and common values to emerge. All of what AP says is entirely in opposition to that. I think the IG debate deserves clarity, not walls of blabla to be construct and deconstruct every two seconds.

JC

NB
> it is difficult to imagine that he did
> it from his own initiative

Yes indeed, it is difficult to imagine. Any problem with that? Was this an uninformed accusation? Well, I will not debate your definition of what is an uninformed accusation but I still believe it is difficult to imagine...



Le 10 déc. 2013 à 23:50, McTim a écrit :

> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Jean-Christophe Nothias
> <jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Georges,
>> 
>> I do not think anyone has a problem with the Alejandro classification, nor himself. With his resume, his grade, his whatever. Nothing of these.
>> 
>> The issue is about his statements during ICANN48. So let's talk about that. What does these statements mean to the CS
> 
> They are just one input that we can embrace or reject.  I think they
> are quite reasonable (separating ICANN issues from surveillance,
> rejecting a single definition of IG, pushing forward on evolution of
> the unilateral role of the US).
> 
> 
> 
> , to the IG debate, its potential objectives and tangible results of a
> 2014-discussion.
> 
> If anything it pushes us forward to tangible results.
> 
> Even though someone like Alejandro has put all these big words
> (orders/advises) in his mouth, it is difficult to imagine that he did
> it from his own initiative.
> 
> Now that is outrageous.  Why would you make such an uninformed
> accusation?  You have zero basis for such a claim!
> 
> 
> All what he said is shocking to any honest participant to the IG debate.
> 
> 
> There was nothing shocking there.  Are there any of us that accept the
> WGIG definition as the ONLY definition of IG?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
> 
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