[governance] On the seriousness of threats (was Re: abuse...)

Rafik rafik.dammak at gmail.com
Mon Apr 29 04:25:14 EDT 2013 

Hello,


> On Sunday 28 April 2013 01:13 AM, Avri Doria wrote:
>> all the cool kids are getting warnings. 
> 
> Yes, very cool kids, like those who tell 'shame on you'* to one of our co-cos, for acts done by him on the behalf of the caucus, and that too after proclaiming that one has recently been

I am not aware or recall that IGC members mandated the co-cos to act in controversial way on their behalf by re-interpreting rules or what looks sometimes as taking position or siding with party against another or pushing for their own opinions.  Co-cos have a hard task in IGC and we are helping them to act WITHIN their roles.

Yes receiving many warning may indicate some level of abuse of power and just as reminder no so long time ago we had an appeal process, something rarely happened before.

> warned privately for violation of list posting rules. I think it is really cool!! Also tells about powers and immunities. Power does create coolness.

> 
> * I dont know how it reads to someone from the western culture, but here in south Asia it is a most insulting phrase. 
> 

Well coming from middle east and north African , Mediterranean culture (from the south side), I read the phrase as sarcasm and irony, a powerful manner and style to criticise abuse of power.

I am not sure that trying to create this division between west and east in IGC in regular manner is well-advisedto to enhance any kind of substantive debate in the list. 
We have many problems here and hope that everybody try to work toward common ground and avoid ideological fights or pushing for personal agenda whatever it costs.
I am aware that because my message  I become good candidate for private warning, but anyway I am sending the reply because I do think that IGC reached since a while an intolerable level of mistrust and fights that prevent making any contribution as caucus .
Thanks,

Rafik

> parminder 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> pretty soon if you haven't gotten a warning you will have wonder what is wrong with you. 
>> 
>> avri
>> 
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Peter H. Hellmonds" <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>
>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "Adam Peake" <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>
>> Subject: [governance] On the seriousness of threats (was Re: abuse...)
>> Date: Sat, Apr 27, 2013 10:51
>> 
>> 
>> Adam, 
>> 
>> amongst those who received a private warning am also I, following my recent reply to Parminder. The coordinator is obviously very quick with his hat on. ;-)
>> 
>> Best
>> Peter
>> 
>> Peter H. Hellmonds
>> <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>
>> +49 (160) 360-2852
>> 
>> On 26.04.2013, at 12:27, "Adam Peake" <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>> 
>> Norbert
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>> > (this posting is intentionally sent informally, without "coordinator
>> > hat")
>> > 
>> > Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> [Milton L Mueller] Of course, that is what I meant. I made it clear
>> >> that I will speak up against and challenge any attempt to force
>> >> through a poorly-crafted statement as a "civil society" position or a
>> >> position of this caucus.
>> > 
>> > You are of course the ultimate authority on what you meant, and I am
>> > personally glad to take note of the implied promise that you will not
>> > take other action, such as public humiliation or perhaps disruption of
>> > a young academic's career, if someone should proceed to promote,
>> > contrary to your desire, something that involves emphasis on public
>> > good aspects of the Internet as *a* civil society position.
>> 
>> there was no such suggestion in Milton's email.  If you saw such a
>> message rather than threaten him with a warning you should ask him
>> what he meant, express your concern.
>> 
>> You are clearly too quick with your hat and your warnings and it's
>> troubling that you add your own interpretation and opinion.  Your
>> warning to me (yes, I've been warned...) was over the Michael Gurstein
>> incident and what I saw as forum/stakeholder shopping to gain a seat
>> in the CSTD WG (my fault for expressing annoyance that someone would
>> attempt to manipulate longstanding and well understood process.)  Fair
>> enough if you thought I had gone to far.  But you added a comment that
>> I was in someway extra guilty because Michael was performing the
>> function of whistle-blower, obviously a sacred role.  As with Milton
>> you added your own interpretation, got rather carried away.
>> 
>> For someone who seems interested in human rights you are very quick to
>> pass personal judgement and censor.  Could you stop please.
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > Getting back to the specific sentence that I reacted to in my private
>> > email to you, “I hope IGC does not waste further time on this
>> > statement, and be forewarned that if it does I will not allow anyone to
>> > misrepresent it as a civil society position” - that is a statement
>> > which can be reasonably read as much more than what you have described
>> > as its intended meaning. While I agree that in the present context it is
>> > not plausible to interpret it as a threat of physical violence, it can
>> > be pl
> 
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