<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Hello,</div><div><br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Sunday 28 April 2013 01:13 AM, Avri
Doria wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:201304271943.r3RJhVbk019061@atl4mhob05.myregisteredsite.com" type="cite"><span style="font-family: Arial;">all the cool kids
are getting warnings. <br>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
Yes, very cool kids, like those who tell 'shame on you'* to one of
our co-cos, for acts done by him on the behalf of the caucus, and
that too after proclaiming that one has recently been </div></blockquote><div><br></div>I am not aware or recall that IGC members mandated the co-cos to act in controversial way on their behalf by re-interpreting rules or what looks sometimes as taking position or siding with party against another or pushing for their own opinions. Co-cos have a hard task in IGC and we are helping them to act WITHIN their roles.<div><br><div>Yes receiving many warning may indicate some level of abuse of power and just as reminder no so long time ago we had an appeal process, something rarely happened before.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>warned
privately for violation of list posting rules. I think it is really
cool!! Also tells about powers and immunities. Power does create
coolness.<br></div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<br>
* I dont know how it reads to someone from the western culture, but
here in south Asia it is a most insulting phrase. <br>
<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Well coming from middle east and north African , Mediterranean culture (from the south side), I read the phrase as sarcasm and irony, a powerful manner and style to criticise abuse of power.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not sure that trying to create this division between west and east in IGC in regular manner is well-advisedto to enhance any kind of substantive debate in the list. </div><div>We have many problems here and hope that everybody try to work toward common ground and avoid ideological fights or pushing for personal agenda whatever it costs.</div><div>I am aware that because my message I become good candidate for private warning, but anyway I am sending the reply because I do think that IGC reached since a while an intolerable level of mistrust and fights that prevent making any contribution as caucus .</div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Rafik</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:201304271943.r3RJhVbk019061@atl4mhob05.myregisteredsite.com" type="cite"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
pretty soon if you haven't gotten a warning you will have wonder
what is wrong with you. <br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
----- Reply message -----<br>
From: "Peter H. Hellmonds" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peter.hellmonds@hellmonds.eu"><peter.hellmonds@hellmonds.eu></a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">"governance@lists.igcaucus.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"><governance@lists.igcaucus.org></a>,
"Adam Peake" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp"><ajp@glocom.ac.jp></a><br>
Subject: [governance] On the seriousness of threats (was Re:
abuse...)<br>
Date: Sat, Apr 27, 2013 10:51<br>
<br>
</span><br>
Adam, <br>
<br>
amongst those who received a private warning am also I, following
my recent reply to Parminder. The coordinator is obviously very
quick with his hat on. ;-)<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
Peter H. Hellmonds<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peter.hellmonds@hellmonds.eu"><peter.hellmonds@hellmonds.eu></a><br>
+49 (160) 360-2852<br>
<br>
On 26.04.2013, at 12:27, "Adam Peake" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp"><ajp@glocom.ac.jp></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Norbert<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Norbert Bollow <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch"><nb@bollow.ch></a>
wrote:<br>
> (this posting is intentionally sent informally, without
"coordinator<br>
> hat")<br>
> <br>
> Milton L Mueller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"><mueller@syr.edu></a> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> [Milton L Mueller] Of course, that is what I meant. I
made it clear<br>
>> that I will speak up against and challenge any attempt to
force<br>
>> through a poorly-crafted statement as a "civil society"
position or a<br>
>> position of this caucus.<br>
> <br>
> You are of course the ultimate authority on what you meant,
and I am<br>
> personally glad to take note of the implied promise that you
will not<br>
> take other action, such as public humiliation or perhaps
disruption of<br>
> a young academic's career, if someone should proceed to
promote,<br>
> contrary to your desire, something that involves emphasis on
public<br>
> good aspects of the Internet as *a* civil society position.<br>
<br>
there was no such suggestion in Milton's email. If you saw such a<br>
message rather than threaten him with a warning you should ask him<br>
what he meant, express your concern.<br>
<br>
You are clearly too quick with your hat and your warnings and it's<br>
troubling that you add your own interpretation and opinion. Your<br>
warning to me (yes, I've been warned...) was over the Michael
Gurstein<br>
incident and what I saw as forum/stakeholder shopping to gain a
seat<br>
in the CSTD WG (my fault for expressing annoyance that someone
would<br>
attempt to manipulate longstanding and well understood process.)
Fair<br>
enough if you thought I had gone to far. But you added a comment
that<br>
I was in someway extra guilty because Michael was performing the<br>
function of whistle-blower, obviously a sacred role. As with
Milton<br>
you added your own interpretation, got rather carried away.<br>
<br>
For someone who seems interested in human rights you are very
quick to<br>
pass personal judgement and censor. Could you stop please.<br>
<br>
Adam<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Getting back to the specific sentence that I reacted to in my
private<br>
> email to you, “I hope IGC does not waste further time on this<br>
> statement, and be forewarned that if it does I will not allow
anyone to<br>
> misrepresent it as a civil society position” - that is a
statement<br>
> which can be reasonably read as much more than what you have
described<br>
> as its intended meaning. While I agree that in the present
context it is<br>
> not plausible to interpret it as a threat of physical
violence, it can<br>
> be pl </blockquote>
<br>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>____________________________________________________________</span><br><span>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br><span>To be removed from the list, visit:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>For all other list information and functions, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a></span><br><span>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>