[governance] Conflicts in Internet Governance

[Avri Doria]

Hi,

I do not see the contradiction in 1.  You are assuming that the citizens have only one form of participation. And you are assuming that people only interact in government in one way.  Personally I also advocate a multistakeholder approach within a country by those living in that country. Of course that its not the case very often at this point.  As for enforcement that happens in many ways, some of which may even be citizen based.

On the second point, ultimately the legitimacy of any government rests with the citizen, whether as voter, organizer, advocate, demonstrator or activist.  So government only rules to the extent to which those who live in a country allow them to rule. Indeed in case of the worse autocracy the citizen effort to change things is quite huge and sometimes deadly, but as the seasonal, color and other revolutions show, the people have the power when they decide they need to take the power.


"Guru गुरु" <Guru at ITforChange.net> wrote:

>On 04/15/2013 05:18 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>> I think I answered it several times in several ways.
>>
>> Within their respective countries they, whether North Korea, 
>> Azerbaijan or Sweden, get to enforce laws to the extent that citizens
>
>> allow on those within their physical territory.
>>
>
>Avri,
>
>1. From your line above, I suppose you accept that other stakeholders
>in 
>each of these (and other) countries will not have a role in enforcing 
>law within their physical territory, which the Governments have.
>
>If you do accept this, then your wish that  "government participation
>as 
>equal/equivalent stakeholders in Internet governance" contradicts the 
>above, in the context of law enforcement within their physical 
>territory. Will you accept that your wish is meaningless to the extent 
>of this contradiction.
>
>
>2. I could not understand what you mean by "to the extent that citizens
>
>allow", do you mean that the citizens can refuse enforcement of law by 
>the Government. Would you extend such a privilege to decide what laws
>to 
>follow and what not to follow to areas other than IG?
>
>I request your clarifications.
>
>Guru
>ps  - On the issue of law enforcement beyond territorial borders,  I 
>hope to seek clarification separately
>
>
>> "Guru गुरु" <Guru at ITforChange.net> wrote:
>>
>>     On 04/15/2013 06:55 AM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>
>>         On 14 Apr 2013, at 12:37, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>             But here, on the IGC list, what I'm attempting to do (for
>>             the sake of avoiding any misunderstanding) is discovering
>>             what the various correspondents understand to be "the
>>             Internet", upon which they wish "no government
>>             interference". I asked a question of Avri, perhaps you
>>             could answer it also. 
>>
>>         I tend to think of the Internet as an emergent, and emerging,
>>         reality consisting of hardware, protocols and software, and
>>         human intentionality brought together by a common set of
>>         design principles and constrained by policies fashioned by
>the
>>         stakeholders. I beleive "no government interference" is an
>>         inaccurate representation of what I wish for. I wish for "no
>>         government control," I also wish for government participation
>>         as equal/equivalent stakeholders in Internet governance. I am
>>         sure that would be considered government interference by
>some.
>>         And would be considered "no government interference" by
>>         others. avri 
>>
>>     Avri
>>
>>     Do you think government needs to enforce law. would such
>enforcement
>>     require 'control'? (I think andrea glorioso asked this question
>in two
>>     emails pointedly but i think without response)
>>
>>     Guru
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~
>> avri 

~~~
avri
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