[governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy
Chaitanya Dhareshwar
chaitanyabd at gmail.com
Wed Oct 24 01:13:19 EDT 2012
Yes I figured that was a given, not something we'd actually have to say out
loud.
Again if there were country level representation (from any country - maybe
like India's IT Ministry or suchlike) approaching them I'm sure they would
accomodate rather than refuse - it's fairly likely there hasnt been such a
step (us discussing about it does not really count that way :)
-C
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
> Certainly, if any two entities commit resources, experts etc and come up
> with a useful set of best practices, which is what a framework is, when you
> boil it down, it is out there, and for any country to adopt, or not, as it
> suits them.
>
> Knowing the USA and Japan, industry and civil society is likely much
> deeper engaged, and thus contributing a much hier level of expertise, than
> in other countries where you would only get a token window dressing level
> of presence from non government stakeholders. So I would count that as a
> second plus.
>
> When we talk of multistakeholderism, we need to beware of demanding a
> stake "just because". Unless there is something significant .. Not
> necessarily money ... to contribute.
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 24-Oct-2012, at 3:52, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan at unam.mx>
> wrote:
>
> Parminder,
>
> as Wolfgang Pauli reputedly said, "it isn't even wrong".
>
> I wont let this discussion distract you from preparing comments to the
> article McTim and Suresh have pointed to.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>
> SMS +525541444475
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> ------------------------------
> *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de parminder [
> parminder at itforchange.net]
> *Enviado el:* martes, 23 de octubre de 2012 03:07
> *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> *Asunto:* Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on
> the Internet Economy
>
>
> Alejandro/ Chaitanya,
>
> On Tuesday 23 October 2012 10:27 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
>
> Chaitanya,
>
> thanks! so, not much of an Internet Governance aspect to this issue
> left.
>
>
> In fact, the primary internet 'Governance' question posed in my initial
> posting remains and has not been addressed at all, with the discussion
> swerving towards operational issues.
>
> I had asked, why should US and Japan develop "an international framework
> to support cloud computing" and not all countries - developed and
> developing - together do it? Any responses to this primary IG question.
>
> And since Alejandro mentions 'ugly imperialists' , I will like to say that
> it is in unilaterally imposing governance frameworks developed by rich
> countries over the whole world that 'ugly imperialism' comes in. You do all
> the governance work, and if developing countries want to do it, call them
> as despots out to control the Internet, and for good measure, co-opt a
> willing civil society into the game.
>
>
> parminder
>
>
> On to the next one.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>
> SMS +525541444475
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> ------------------------------
> *Desde:* Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
> *Enviado el:* lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 21:08
> *Hasta:* Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
> *CC:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> *Asunto:* Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on
> the Internet Economy
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> I'm not blaming developing countries (or developed countries or anything
> else) here - its just that even when these facilities are provided and
> available the buyers are few. My example CtrlS is on par with Softlayer in
> most ways - except most importantly it's location.
>
> End of the day getting the system up from the investment capital and
> ensuring it has a workable revenue stream become quite different - and
> without the revenue stream even the best won't be *able to *be there very
> long.
>
> -C
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <
> apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>
>> Chaitanya,
>>
>> let me tell you a short story about clouds and grids in the real world.
>>
>> Several years ago in the consortium for the Internet-2 project in
>> Mexico I (while Academic-CIO at UNAM) got funds for a project, the
>> Metropolitan Supercomputing Delta, which would interconnect three
>> supercomputers at high speed (ours was a Top-500 when purchased, 1,300
>> processors.) The key to the design was that the communication between the
>> computers would never be more than an order of magnitude slower than the
>> fiber inside the computers so we would not be working with batch jobs but
>> some level of synched computing power for big science problems like
>> computerized fluid dynamics, quantum chemistry, etc.
>>
>> This would become a National Reference Laboratory and a great place to
>> train people in grids and a stepping stone toward provisioning cloud
>> computing. The project was authorized but the funds were not released for
>> several years (in the meantime I left that job.) Well, it's 2012 and it's
>> beginning to work because it took years to go across the regulations to do
>> things like dig trenches to cross a sidewalk between a university and the
>> subway to connect to a fiber there and other stuff like that. Inefficiency,
>> bureaucracy, lack of vision, petty politics, all played a role.
>>
>> Darned missed opportunity, darned high opportunity cost: we never got
>> to train, hands-on and in critical, bleeding edfe, operations, the several
>> hundred engineers we would have.
>>
>> Is this the fault of the ugly imperialists out there? Or will we admit
>> that in developing countries we have some laundry of our own to wash before
>> blaming it all on them?
>>
>> Why can't we, quoting you, "pull up excellent network speeds and stable
>> datacenters" while "they" can?
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> ! !! !!! !!!!
>>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121024/753444e7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
For all other list information and functions, see:
http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
http://www.igcaucus.org/
Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
More information about the Governance
mailing list