<div>Yes I figured that was a given, not something we'd actually have to say out loud. </div><div> </div><div>Again if there were country level representation (from any country - maybe like India's IT Ministry or suchlike) approaching them I'm sure they would accomodate rather than refuse - it's fairly likely there hasnt been such a step (us discussing about it does not really count that way :)</div>
<div> </div><div>-C<br><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:suresh@hserus.net" target="_blank">suresh@hserus.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div>Certainly, if any two entities commit resources, experts etc and come up with a useful set of best practices, which is what a framework is, when you boil it down, it is out there, and for any country to adopt, or not, as it suits them. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Knowing the USA and Japan, industry and civil society is likely much deeper engaged, and thus contributing a much hier level of expertise, than in other countries where you would only get a token window dressing level of presence from non government stakeholders. So I would count that as a second plus.</div>
<div><br></div><div>When we talk of multistakeholderism, we need to beware of demanding a stake "just because". Unless there is something significant .. Not necessarily money ... to contribute.<br><br>--srs (iPad)</div>
<div><div class="h5"><div><br>On 24-Oct-2012, at 3:52, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><span></span></div><blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:10pt;direction:ltr">
Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>as Wolfgang Pauli reputedly said, "it isn't even wrong". </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wont let this discussion distract you from preparing comments to the article McTim and Suresh have pointed to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yours,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
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+525541444475 <br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </font></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:16px">
<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>Desde:</b> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] en nombre de parminder [<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> martes, 23 de octubre de 2012 03:07<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"><br>
Alejandro/ Chaitanya,<br>
<br>
</font>
<div>On Tuesday 23 October 2012 10:27 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:10pt;direction:ltr">
Chaitanya,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks! so, not much of an Internet Governance aspect to this issue left. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
In fact, the primary internet 'Governance' question posed in my initial posting remains and has not been addressed at all, with the discussion swerving towards operational issues.<br>
<br>
I had asked, why should US and Japan develop "an international framework to support cloud computing" and not all countries - developed and developing - together do it? Any responses to this primary IG question.
<br>
<br>
And since Alejandro mentions 'ugly imperialists' , I will like to say that it is in unilaterally imposing governance frameworks developed by rich countries over the whole world that 'ugly imperialism' comes in. You do all the governance work, and if developing
countries want to do it, call them as despots out to control the Internet, and for good measure, co-opt a willing civil society into the game.<br>
<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:10pt;direction:ltr">
<div>On to the next one.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yours,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
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+525541444475 <br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">
http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">
http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">
http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">
http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </font></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:16px">
<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>Desde:</b> Chaitanya Dhareshwar [<a href="mailto:chaitanyabd@gmail.com" target="_blank">chaitanyabd@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 21:08<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch<br>
<b>CC:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">
governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Hi Alex,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm not blaming developing countries (or developed countries or anything else) here - its just that even when these facilities are provided and available the buyers are few. My example CtrlS is on par with Softlayer in most ways - except most importantly
it's location. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>End of the day getting the system up from the investment capital and ensuring it has a workable revenue stream become quite different - and without the revenue stream even the best won't be <em>able to
</em>be there very long. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>-C<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:10pt;direction:ltr">Chaitanya,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>let me tell you a short story about clouds and grids in the real world. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Several years ago in the consortium for the Internet-2 project in Mexico I (while Academic-CIO at UNAM) got funds for a project, the Metropolitan Supercomputing Delta, which would interconnect three supercomputers at high speed (ours was a Top-500 when
purchased, 1,300 processors.) The key to the design was that the communication between the computers would never be more than an order of magnitude slower than the fiber inside the computers so we would not be working with batch jobs but some level of synched
computing power for big science problems like computerized fluid dynamics, quantum chemistry, etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This would become a National Reference Laboratory and a great place to train people in grids and a stepping stone toward provisioning cloud computing. The project was authorized but the funds were not released for several years (in the meantime I left
that job.) Well, it's 2012 and it's beginning to work because it took years to go across the regulations to do things like dig trenches to cross a sidewalk between a university and the subway to connect to a fiber there and other stuff like that. Inefficiency,
bureaucracy, lack of vision, petty politics, all played a role. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Darned missed opportunity, darned high opportunity cost: we never got to train, hands-on and in critical, bleeding edfe, operations, the several hundred engineers we would have. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is this the fault of the ugly imperialists out there? Or will we admit that in developing countries we have some laundry of our own to wash before blaming it all on them? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why can't we, quoting you, "pull up excellent network speeds and stable datacenters" while "they" can?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier
New">
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New">!
!! !!! !!!!</font></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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