IETF WAS Re: [governance] Enhanced Cooperation (was Re: reality check on economics)

[michael gurstein]

I think that Andrea's comment concerning the understanding of
"multilateralism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateralism in
international relations-speak as counterposed to "unilateralism" rather than
to "multi-stakeholderism" moves the discussion along quite significantly.

Again without pre-judging the discussion it seems to me to be quite
reasonable to assume (unless there is clear evidence to the contrary) that
"multilateralism" is to be seen not as an endpoint (in geek speak an
"ontology") rather it can be seen as something that can be further
disassembled (redefined) as Andrea did in his most recent note, to include a
variety of different modalities of or within "multilateralism" including
"multi-stakeholderism", "enhanced democracy" and so on.

An answer from Bill concerning my original question would probably help to
clarify and perhaps resolve this issue.

Equally, a response from Norbert (and or Avri) about how the IETF model
could/would actually work in an area of global policy making (EC) such as
Net Neutrality or regulating Google concerning privacy would also move the
discussion along beyond rather calcified positions.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:41 AM
To: IGC
Subject: Re: IETF WAS Re: [governance] Enhanced Cooperation (was Re: reality
check on economics)



Dear Andrea,

As you, and others, were denigrating a model I think works and is an
exemplar, I considered it necessary make common cause with those who defend
the model from those who denigrate it. There are few enough workable
instances of multistakeholder participatory democracy (MPD).  While these
MPDs are imperfect and must continue to evolve and improve, I do not think
any of us who are part of these organizations and who support these
organizations can allow them to be rendered irrelevant by those who appear
to support a multilateral government oversight (MGO) approach.

cheers,

avri

On 23 May 2012, at 10:26, Andrea Glorioso wrote:

> Dear Avri,
> 
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
> 
> On 23 May 2012, at 03:57, Andrea Glorioso wrote:
> 
> > However, let me point out that although the IETF may not have a 
> > "monopoly" in solving these and/or similar problems, its supporters 
> > do tend to present it as the best option for Internet-related 
> > standards-setting and, therefore, one may infer that other options 
> > should not be pursued.
> 
> That was never my point.
> 
> If anything my point is that it works and while casting about the 
> models that work, this one should not be denigrated and ignored.
> 
> I was also arguing that government people could be as qualified as 
> anyone to operate in a IETF millieau.
> 
> I do not know how that became "IETF is the only model and all others 
> should be ignored."
> 
> Actually, I was not referring to you and my email was in reaction to 
> Norbert's, which seemed to me to have a slightly more sanguine approach to
the IETF.
> 
> And I said "some supporters do tend". I would hope you do not consider 
> yourself as summarising the characteristics of the whole universality 
> of IETF supporters. ;)
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> --
> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. 
> Keep it in mind.
> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
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