[governance] A false consensus is broken
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Sat Dec 22 02:31:23 EST 2012
On the other hand, carrying on our exploration of the English language,
to illustrate what a genuine misleading statement or lie is, let me
refer to the WCIT assessment by Eli Dourado, that Lee forwarded. And
which all of you who reacted so viciously to my article, read in
complete silence, and perhaps with approval, knowing about the untruths,
since many of you were 'on the ground' and have otherwise following the
WCIT closely.
<http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/12/behind-closed-doors-at-the-uns-attempted-takeover-of-the-internet/>
(BTW, Eli is co-founder of WCITleaks, an outstanding contribution
indeed, but at Dubai he was a part of the US delegation, and in the
article liberally use the collective 'we' as referring to the US delegation)
In the article he says, rather blithely, that 54 countries immediately
followed US's position of not signing the treaty. We all know that 54 is
the total number of countries who have not (yet) signed the treaty. This
number includes those who followed the US and declared they will not
sign the treaty (I think no more than 12-20) and those who wanted to go
home and consult before making their decision. The important fact in
this regard is that in 1988, 75 countries signed later on, after they
went home from the meetin.
However, the article clearly suggests, 54 countries /*refused to*/ sign
the treaty. To quote ' Fifty-four other countries took the same position
(as the US), drawing sharp battle lines over the Internet and its future
governance. '
Now this is what is called a (extremely) misleading statement, rather,
possibly, a lie. And it is this kind of statement that actually conveys
a completely wrong picture about a very basic set of facts about the
meeting.
Then, later on in the article, Eli says, "Sweden said that it would need
to consult with its capital (code in UN-speak for “not signing”)"
We all know that delegations even when they are on the verge on signing
something often seek time to 'consult with the capital'. So, Eli
assertion is completely wrong. And if it is on this ignorance that he
thought 54 countries than hadnt signed wont sign then well, it is not a
lie, but an extremely misleading statement made out of ignorance. Which
level of ignorance is however a bit difficult to excuse he being on the
ground , part of the US delegation, in the middle of all the talk, but I
am willing to give him the benefit of doubt.
But it is difficult to give the same benefit of doubt to all those who
seem to know so much and who passed this article without raising their
grandiose banners about facts and right representation...
Similarily, earlier, in a discussion on this list, Peter Hellmonds in
his email listed the number 57, which refers to those who havent yet
signed, as being "opposed' (to the treaty). Even after I pointed out
this misrepresentation he made no corrections...
Now this is what is a misleading statement, or, if some people prefer to
call it so, a lie....
Just basic English lessons...
parminder
On Saturday 22 December 2012 12:17 PM, parminder wrote:
>
> Hopefully we are done with the inquest into figurative and other
> meanings of 'walkout', though we all know it was never really about
> it. Before I come to what it really is or was about, let me too
> indulge a bit on the meaning and context of 'walking out'.....
>
> 1. When countries declare their disassociation from a ongoing treaty
> etc process, it is very often called out as a walkout. Walking out of
> trade talks, climate negotiations, doha round of WTO.... Such is a
> regular use of the phrase.
>
> 2. WCIT was an event with the sole objective of negotiating a treaty.
> Declaring the intention not to sign the treaty as the process is still
> on is called as walking out on or of the process..... That is what the
> US did, and that is a walkout. (By the way, the head of US delegation
> was reported to use the term 'waking out of WCIT' is a figurative
> manner mid way during the conference. Although he later denied he said
> what was attibuted to him, the concerned reporter, I think from
> CommDay, later confirmed that he had indeed said so.)
>
> 3. Being from a poor Southern background, I am forced to take the
> cover of what an American said. Well, a regular columnist of the New
> York Times, Eric Pfanner wrote that US "refused to sign the document
> and *left in a huff*"... Did anyone see the US huffing.. Were the
> members of the US delegation huffing or the whole country.... Those on
> the ground can please let me know. I am really very eager. Avri, Adam,
> McTim, Rony..... any one of you know the 'facts' in this case....
>
> 4. I knew the vulnerabilities of a poor Southie writing what would get
> forwarded to the mighty in the IG space... I knew that the wolves are
> out there..... and so, I actually quoted Eric Pfanner in my article.
> And it was from his expression that I built the 'walking out'
> thing..... Hope, a day will come when we from the post-colonial South
> would not need to do such kinds of things to earn legitimacy for
> simple facts that otherwise are there for anyone to see..... I must
> have read 40-50 articles and statements and postings before I wrote
> what I wrote, because, as I said, I knew the wolves will come
> pouncing. And they did come in any case, if for nothing else, to
> interrogate the use of English language by me....
>
> 5. I am sure Terry Kramer himself must have read the NYT article... I
> did not see him or anyone else issue angry disclaimers for factual
> inaccuracy which they definitely would have if there indeed would have
> been one (I mean about 'leaving in a huff'). So, this is a case of the
> above mentioned wolves being more loyal then the emperor. Very
> worrying tendency for civil society indeed.
>
> 6. And of course, all of you too read the referred NYT article, which
> was forwarded by me with the subject like 'NYT expresses surprise at
> US *walkout*'.
>
> 7. There continues to be many articles in the Northern press using the
> term 'US walkout' for what happened, most of them though agreeing with
> what the US did, which is not the point here. It is just about the use
> of that term and the kind of vicious reaction that it attracted.
>
> The vicious reaction was of course to forcefully shut up anyone who
> but dare give a view or analysis which does not meekly accept the
> dominant discourse on the subject - which, in my view is guided and
> led by the global political an economic elites, who unfortunately have
> been able to build a very loyal following in what is being called as
> civil society. As said, I see this as a very disturbing trend.
> Therefore the issue is beyond just the uncivility of the response, it
> is about what and who do they represent to become so vicious just on
> reading an opinion piece that says that US walked out of the treaty
> process, and may have made a diplomatic blunder in doing so.
>
> parminder
>
>
> On Saturday 22 December 2012 09:28 AM, Tracey Naughton wrote:
>> Arguing about English is an excluding distraction not conducive to
>> the basis of multi-stakeholder dialogue. Sad to see on a CS list. The
>> article was an opinion piece.
>>
>> That said, as someone who remains very interested in the post WSIS
>> goings on, I have appreciated the diversity of opinions that have
>> emerged to assist me with understanding what actually happened at
>> WCIT, so thanks for your enthusiastic discussions.
>>
>> Tracey Naughton
>> Australia
>>
>>
>> On 22 Dec 2012, at 12:22 PM, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com
>> <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> All of this phony outrage is a bit much…
>>
>> Being outraged about a zillion dollar corporation not wanting to pay
>> its fair share of taxes… that's something to be outraged about…
>>
>> Being outraged at countries in the North turning their backs on
>> agreements to extend broadband access to countries in the South…
>> that's something to be outraged about…
>>
>> Being outraged at countries not willing to sign agreements
>> re-interating already agreed to commitments in the area of Human
>> Rights… that's something to be outraged about…
>>
>> But whether the US walked out, tromped out, slid out, or flew out of
>> the meeting on gossamer wings (after refusing to sign an agreement
>> accepted by 2/3rds of the countries attending) … that seems to me to
>> be a matter of the utmost triviality … of interest, dare I say, only
>> to those who don't have anything more substantial to argue against…
>>
>> M
>>
>> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Koven
>> Ronald
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 4:27 PM
>> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; lehto.paul at gmail.com
>> <mailto:lehto.paul at gmail.com>; avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>
>> *Cc:* gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken
>>
>> What the devil is a "figurative walkout" ? There was
>> misrepresentation or factual error. Period.
>>
>> No reputable media outlet would or should accept that. A correction
>> would be in order.
>>
>> Orwellian language is not in order.
>>
>> If we can't count on basic intellectual honesty, there is no sense in
>> these discussions.
>>
>> Bests, Rony Koven
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com <mailto:lehto.paul at gmail.com>>
>> To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>>; Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>>
>> Cc: michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>>
>> Sent: Fri, Dec 21, 2012 9:02 pm
>> Subject: Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken
>>
>>
>> But what is truly at issue is not a "fact" like whether someone
>> physically locomoted using their legs in order to leave a meeting.
>> "Walked out" has both literal and figurative meaning, and Parminder -
>> as was obvious to me at least - intended the phrase in a figurative
>> way. This should be especially obvious because it was a country
>> (having no legs) that walked out, not a specific person.
>>
>> Since it appears some have appointed themselves inquisitors and made
>> a charge of inaccuracy against Parminder, I assert my neutrality (not
>> even sure why people are so hot on this), and *appoint myself judge
>> and dismiss this claim, *on the grounds that "walked out" has clearly
>> figurative meaning and the actual facts, even as alleged by the
>> inquisitors, fit without the broad meaning of "walked out". :)
>>
>> The key word in Michael's question was "pre-occupation." Why the
>> _pre-occupation_ with this? It appears that question is unlikely to
>> be answered. And I won't rule on it either, since I don't have enough
>> facts before me to do so. :)
>>
>> Paul Lehto, J.D.
>>
>> PS If anyone has a problem with me being the self-appointed judge
>> here, then they should have a very similar problem with those who
>> have accused and also called this an open and shut case of "you can't
>> have your own facts" - which is just judgment in a different form,
>> and a self-appointed judgment at that. In order to reach my
>> "judgment" I've looked at the facts in the light most favorable to
>> the accused, given the rights of free expression at stake.
>>
>> All we really have here is what could be a valuable discussion about
>> the extent to which there was or wasn't a /figurative/ walk out, and
>> that could be enlightening given the personal observations of some on
>> the list but which devolved into something more /ad hominem/ in the
>> nature of a game of gotcha.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21 Dec 2012, at 10:13, michael gurstein wrote:
>>
>> > Or Parminder used/quoted colourful journalistic language in a
>> journalistic medium...
>> >
>> > Anyway, why this pre-occupation with one perhaps infelicitous turn
>> of (journalistic/diplomatic?) phrase ... Is this the US Congress/Fox
>> News where a fairly comprehensible mispeak can lead to a total
>> "gothcha" pre-occupation (the Benghazi "discussions") for purely
>> political purposes to the exclusion of substantive debate...
>>
>> It is simple:
>>
>> Because you are not permitted to have your own facts.
>>
>> avri
>>
>>
>>
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>> --
>> Paul R Lehto, J.D.
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