[governance] A false consensus is broken

Fri Dec 21 20:40:08 EST 2012

Disagreeing with your position constitutes a "walkout" ? 

-----Original Message-----
From: michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; 'Koven Ronald' <kovenronald at aol.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 22, 2012 2:23 am
Subject: RE: [governance] A false consensus is broken

All of this phony outrage is a bit much…

Being outraged about a zillion dollar corporation not wanting to pay its fair share of taxes… that's something to be outraged about…

Being outraged at countries in the North turning their backs on agreements to extend broadband access to countries in the South… that's something to be outraged about…

Being outraged at countries not willing to sign agreements re-interating already agreed to commitments in the area of Human Rights… that's something to be outraged about…

But whether the US walked out, tromped out, slid out, or flew out of the meeting on gossamer wings (after refusing to sign an agreement accepted by 2/3rds of the countries attending) … that seems to me to be a matter of the utmost triviality … of interest, dare I say, only to those who don't have anything more substantial to argue against…

M

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Koven Ronald
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 4:27 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; lehto.paul at gmail.com; avri at acm.org
Cc: gurstein at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken

What the devil is a "figurative walkout" ? There was misrepresentation or factual error. Period. 

No reputable media outlet would or should accept that. A correction would be in order.

Orwellian language is not in order.

If we can't count on basic intellectual honesty, there is no sense in these discussions. 

Bests, Rony Koven

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com>
To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Avri Doria <avri at acm.org>
Cc: michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 21, 2012 9:02 pm
Subject: Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken

But what is truly at issue is not a "fact" like whether someone physically locomoted using their legs in order to leave a meeting.  "Walked out" has both literal and figurative meaning, and Parminder - as was obvious to me at least - intended the phrase in a figurative way.   This should be especially obvious because it was a country (having no legs) that walked out, not a specific person. 

Since it appears some have appointed themselves inquisitors and made a charge of inaccuracy against Parminder, I assert my neutrality (not even sure why people are so hot on this), and appoint myself judge and dismiss this claim, on the grounds that "walked out" has clearly figurative meaning and the actual facts, even as alleged by the inquisitors, fit without the broad meaning of "walked out". :) 

The key word in Michael's question was "pre-occupation."  Why the pre-occupation with this? It appears that question is unlikely to be answered. And I won't rule on it either, since I don't have enough facts before me to do so.  :) 

Paul Lehto, J.D.

PS  If anyone has a problem with me being the self-appointed judge here, then they should have a very similar problem with those who have accused and also called this an open and shut case of "you can't have your own facts" - which is just judgment in a different form, and a self-appointed judgment at that.  In order to reach my "judgment" I've looked at the facts in the light most favorable to the accused, given the rights of free expression at stake.  

All we really have here is what could be a valuable discussion about the extent to which there was or wasn't a figurative walk out, and that could be enlightening given the personal observations of some on the list but which devolved into something more ad hominem in the nature of a game of gotcha.

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:

On 21 Dec 2012, at 10:13, michael gurstein wrote:

> Or Parminder used/quoted colourful journalistic language in a journalistic medium...
>
> Anyway, why this pre-occupation with one perhaps infelicitous turn of (journalistic/diplomatic?) phrase ... Is this the US Congress/Fox News where a fairly comprehensible mispeak can lead to a total "gothcha" pre-occupation (the Benghazi "discussions") for purely political purposes to the exclusion of substantive debate...

It is simple:

Because you are not permitted to have your own facts.

avri

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