[governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's vassal acts decisively and illegally
Koven Ronald
kovenronald at aol.com
Mon Aug 20 09:19:54 EDT 2012
Parminder --
This is a total falsification. I did not write the message to which you have apparently attached my signature. Maybe you''re not responsible for this, but someone on this list is. I'm entitled to an explanation and an apology from the person who has done this. deliberately or not.
Rony Koven
> without necessary the possibility to classified in a compelling manner
> which ones are the best for everybody? And how do we negotiate the
> values that will prevail for a global infrastructure? It seems to me
> those are relevant questions we have been wrestling with in this space
> and other IG-related forums for quite a while now. Mawaki Disclaimer:
> I think Assange is not a saint; he has the duty to answer for his
> actions that fall under existing laws like any other citizens, no more
> no less. My understanding is that most people who seem to keep a
> critical eye on UK, Sweden (and maybe ultimately the US) in this are
> not doing so necessarily for the individual Assange, but because they
> are worry about the possibility of politically motivated charges. You
> may call that conspiracy theory, but I suspect, from the arguments
> they are making, that they have some good reasons not to rule out that
> possibility as yet.
>> Best regards, Rony Koven
>>
-----Original Message-----
From: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2012 2:26 pm
Subject: Re: [governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's vassal acts decisively and illegally
On Monday 20 August 2012 05:25 AM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
> snip
> In this particular case of Wikileaks, it seems the tables have turned,
> at least for some: the extreme defense of free speech no longer
> applies, or maybe has never applied, to freedom of information? Does
> anyone on this list still believe that policy - including policy for
> technical infrastructure - does not involve worldviews and values,
> which are diverse around the world,
Yes, apparently your institution-mate, Milton :) ....
> without necessary the possibility to classified in a compelling manner
> which ones are the best for everybody? And how do we negotiate the
> values that will prevail for a global infrastructure? It seems to me
> those are relevant questions we have been wrestling with in this space
> and other IG-related forums for quite a while now. Mawaki Disclaimer:
> I think Assange is not a saint; he has the duty to answer for his
> actions that fall under existing laws like any other citizens, no more
> no less. My understanding is that most people who seem to keep a
> critical eye on UK, Sweden (and maybe ultimately the US) in this are
> not doing so necessarily for the individual Assange, but because they
> are worry about the possibility of politically motivated charges. You
> may call that conspiracy theory, but I suspect, from the arguments
> they are making, that they have some good reasons not to rule out that
> possibility as yet.
>> Best regards, Rony Koven
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>> To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Ginger Paque
>> <gpaque at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu>
>> Sent: Sun, Aug 19, 2012 7:57 pm
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's
>> vassal acts decisively and illegally
>>
>> Assange is referring to this as a witchhunt, see:
>> http://www.newsday.com/news/world/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-calls-on-obama-to-end-witch-hunt-1.3913652
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 5:29 AM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Excellent post, Dominique. Gracias!
>>>
>>>
>>> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>>>
>>> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>>> Diplo Foundation
>>> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>>> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 August 2012 12:25, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu> wrote:
>>>> That story seems to be all about secret at the information age!
>>>> Assange got 2 love stories. In both cases, the women invited him in her
>>>> bed.
>>>> The case is about what happened there. Sex by surprise? That should stay
>>>> secret, as long as the women were not injured. Actually, they never
>>>> complained for that.
>>>>
>>>> At the contrary, Bradley Manning and Wikileaks revealed what should not
>>>> be kept secret:
>>>> - Civilians (journalists and children) murders by US soldiers in Iraq.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/04/06/us-iraq-usa-journalists-idUSTRE6344FW20100406
>>>> - Orders given to diplomates to spy UN leaders (DNA, passwords, credit
>>>> card numbers etc.)
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un
>>>> - And so on.
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless, of course I agree with Ginger and Mawaki: crime allegations
>>>> are displaced manipulations AND we cannot just ignore the sexual misconduct
>>>> allegations.
>>>>
>>>> But at this stage of the worldwide imbroglio, it's too late for having a
>>>> neutral trial in Sweden. Could you imagine a Swedish Court concluding:
"Much
>>>> ado about nothing"? So public opinion mobilization is important. We are the
>>>> witnesses.
>>>> And at this hour, I would like to hear the two women. I'm not sure that
>>>> the story is still their story...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some strange points must not be forgotten. Just some clues for new
>>>> readers of the case:
>>>>
>>>> - Feminist fighters should be very happy to see that nowadays police
>>>> force all around the world hunt rapers as it's done for Assange.
>>>> A famous feminist wrote about the case. Just search for Naomi Wolf.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/interpol-the-worlds-datin_b_793033.html
>>>>
>>>> - Assange already talked with Swedish authorities.
>>>> Convened because of Swedish demand, he went spontaneously to the London
>>>> police.
>>>>
>>>> - Swedish authorities aren't clear on the case, first closed and then
>>>> reopened:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rape-investigation-into-wikileaks-chief-reopens-2068162.html
>>>>
>>>> - It's well established that Assange had two love stories with fans in
>>>> Stockholm and then Enköping.
>>>> The first with the famous Anna Ardin, a feminist fighter whose blog
>>>> explained how to get revenge against men:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7569087-meet-anna-ardin-photos-anna-ardins-7-steps-to-legal-revenge
>>>>
>>>> And so on. It's not the good place for further analyzing that case. But
>>>> doubt is widely allowed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> @+, Dominique
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dominique Lacroix
>>>> Société européenne de l'Internet
>>>> http://www.ies-france.eu
>>>> +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14
>>>>
>>>> Le 19/08/12 16:11, Mawaki Chango a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Completely agree with Ginger here...
>>>> We can't pretend to ignore the elephant in the room: at this point
>>>> there's no part of this story that can be clearly separated from
>>>> Wikileaks - if only given all the shady zones in this imbroglio. And
>>>> yes, it is unfortunate that the rape issue is now and then exploited
>>>> in ways that can undermine legitimate claims. Again a lot remains
>>>> unclear, unfortunately, due to the behavior of the Sweden's
>>>> government.
>>>>
>>>> mawaki
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This may be IG related in the sense that WikiLeaks involves IG, and the
>>>> sexual misconduct case may (I say 'may' because I simply do not have all
>>>> of
>>>> the facts) be a manipulation of the WikiLeaks case.
>>>>
>>>> My firmest point is that the two issues should be separated, the sexual
>>>> misconduct case addressed, and the central case, WikiLeaks, get back in
>>>> focus.
>>>>
>>>> I dislike/resent the use of women/gender/sex as a tool that undermines
>>>> the
>>>> case for legitimate cases of sexual misconduct. If Assange/Assange's
>>>> lawyers
>>>> would force the sexual misconduct issue (without going to Sweden--on
>>>> video,
>>>> webinar, whatever), it would remove this distraction from the picture,
>>>> and
>>>> force the UK to show its hand. In the meantime, we cannot just ignore the
>>>> sexual misconduct allegations. Women and sexual misconduct charges should
>>>> not be used as legal manipulations and distractions.
>>>> Ginger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>>>>
>>>> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>>>> Diplo Foundation
>>>> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>>>> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 August 2012 08:48, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You know that the 5 biggest financial institutions Bank of America, Visa,
>>>> mastercard, wester union and paypal decided to block donations to
>>>> wikileaks
>>>> reducing it in 95%? Censorship? Have here an IG issue as requested for
>>>> some
>>>> people here?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but what have the 5 banks to do with Assange's alleged assaults?
>>>>
>>>> Don't get me wrong, wikileaks is incredibly important, but I do not see
>>>> the connection between the issues in this thread and Internet governance.
>>>> If you want to change the subject, fine :-)
>>>>
>>>> Pussy Riot more relevant, part of their "crime" being posting their
>>>> protest on the Internet.
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> you can still send donations using https://flattr.com/
>>>>
>>>> Carlos Vera
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>>>
>>>> El 19/08/2012, a las 6:42, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> escribió:
>>>>
>>>> Dominique, hi.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rape? Charged?
>>>>
>>>> Assange's lawyer's say accused. But the european arrest warrant the
>>>> UK believes it must enforce says he is wanted for prosecution. I'm
>>>> not a lawyer, not clue about the difference.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Assange is not (yet) charged. The judge only wants to ask him some
>>>> questions. Telecom provide some means, indeed...
>>>> 2. Rape? Perhaps some of us on this list, men AND women, are rapers at
>>>> a
>>>> Swedish sense:
>>>>
>>>> I very much hope not.
>>>>
>>>> Indecent assault isn't that common, is it? As you note the offense
>>>> carries a maximum 4 year sentence. Not trivial.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Under Swedish law, there are legal gradations of the definition of
>>>> rape.
>>>> There is the most serious kind, involving major violence.
>>>> But below that there is the concept of 'regular rape', still involving
>>>> violence but not violence of the utmost horror.
>>>> And below that there is the idea of 'unlawful coercion'. Talking
>>>> generally,
>>>> and not about the Assange case, this might involve putting emotional
>>>> pressure on someone.
>>>>
>>>> The three categories involve prison sentences of 10, six and four
>>>> years
>>>> respectively.
>>>> The lawyer for the two women who have complained against Mr Assange
>>>> will not
>>>> spell out the details because he says that would give too much away to
>>>> the
>>>> accused man. But he does indicate that it is a four-year sentence that
>>>> Mr
>>>> Assange could expect, indicating that he is suspected of this third,
>>>> less
>>>> serious category."
>>>>
>>>> And the great conclusion is:
>>>>
>>>> "The attitude towards rape in Sweden - informed by a strong sense of
>>>> women's
>>>> rights - means that it is more likely to be reported to police.
>>>> Some 53 rape offences are reported per 100,000 people, the highest
>>>> rate in
>>>> Europe.
>>>> The figures may reflect a higher number of actual rapes committed but
>>>> it
>>>> seems more likely that tough attitudes and a broader definition of the
>>>> crime
>>>> are more significant factors."
>>>>
>>>> See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11946652
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it a bit unbalanced, facing whistleblowers issue?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Adam, CIA or not CIA, this case seems to me two Internet
>>>> Governance
>>>> issues.
>>>> - Lawful here, unlawful there.
>>>> - Whistleblowers right at the Digital age.
>>>>
>>>> How would you deal with these questions?
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, don't get it, what has Assange's situation to do with Internet
>>>> governance, even in its broadest sense? He didn't do anything online
>>>> or on the Internet, he is accused of assaulting two women. And those
>>>> two people seem to be being very much overlooked at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> @+, Dominique
>>>>
>>>> Dominique Lacroix
>>>> Société européenne de l'Internet
>>>> http://www.ies-france.eu
>>>> +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 19/08/12 12:28, Fahd A. Batayneh a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I admire Assange. I am glad he has the courage to carry out his
>>>> WikiLeaks
>>>> work. I don't think he should be persecuted, or face politically
>>>> motivated
>>>> harassment or charge.
>>>>
>>>> >>> I don't think being a legitimate social hero allows him to avoid
>>>> facing
>>>>
>>>> charges of rape if the are legitimate.
>>>>
>>>> Ginger
>>>>
>>>> That makes us 2 Ginger. ROCK ON!
>>>>
>>>> Fahd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>> P.O. Box 17862
>> Suva
>> Fiji
>>
>> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
For all other list information and functions, see:
http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
http://www.igcaucus.org/
Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20120820/93694a10/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
For all other list information and functions, see:
http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
http://www.igcaucus.org/
Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
More information about the Governance
mailing list