[governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's vassal acts decisively and illegally
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Mon Aug 20 08:26:01 EDT 2012
On Monday 20 August 2012 05:25 AM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
> snip
> In this particular case of Wikileaks, it seems the tables have turned,
> at least for some: the extreme defense of free speech no longer
> applies, or maybe has never applied, to freedom of information? Does
> anyone on this list still believe that policy - including policy for
> technical infrastructure - does not involve worldviews and values,
> which are diverse around the world,
Yes, apparently your institution-mate, Milton :) ....
> without necessary the possibility to classified in a compelling manner
> which ones are the best for everybody? And how do we negotiate the
> values that will prevail for a global infrastructure? It seems to me
> those are relevant questions we have been wrestling with in this space
> and other IG-related forums for quite a while now. Mawaki Disclaimer:
> I think Assange is not a saint; he has the duty to answer for his
> actions that fall under existing laws like any other citizens, no more
> no less. My understanding is that most people who seem to keep a
> critical eye on UK, Sweden (and maybe ultimately the US) in this are
> not doing so necessarily for the individual Assange, but because they
> are worry about the possibility of politically motivated charges. You
> may call that conspiracy theory, but I suspect, from the arguments
> they are making, that they have some good reasons not to rule out that
> possibility as yet.
>> Best regards, Rony Koven
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>> To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Ginger Paque
>> <gpaque at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu>
>> Sent: Sun, Aug 19, 2012 7:57 pm
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's
>> vassal acts decisively and illegally
>>
>> Assange is referring to this as a witchhunt, see:
>> http://www.newsday.com/news/world/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-calls-on-obama-to-end-witch-hunt-1.3913652
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 5:29 AM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Excellent post, Dominique. Gracias!
>>>
>>>
>>> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>>>
>>> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>>> Diplo Foundation
>>> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>>> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 August 2012 12:25, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu> wrote:
>>>> That story seems to be all about secret at the information age!
>>>> Assange got 2 love stories. In both cases, the women invited him in her
>>>> bed.
>>>> The case is about what happened there. Sex by surprise? That should stay
>>>> secret, as long as the women were not injured. Actually, they never
>>>> complained for that.
>>>>
>>>> At the contrary, Bradley Manning and Wikileaks revealed what should not
>>>> be kept secret:
>>>> - Civilians (journalists and children) murders by US soldiers in Iraq.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/04/06/us-iraq-usa-journalists-idUSTRE6344FW20100406
>>>> - Orders given to diplomates to spy UN leaders (DNA, passwords, credit
>>>> card numbers etc.)
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un
>>>> - And so on.
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless, of course I agree with Ginger and Mawaki: crime allegations
>>>> are displaced manipulations AND we cannot just ignore the sexual misconduct
>>>> allegations.
>>>>
>>>> But at this stage of the worldwide imbroglio, it's too late for having a
>>>> neutral trial in Sweden. Could you imagine a Swedish Court concluding: "Much
>>>> ado about nothing"? So public opinion mobilization is important. We are the
>>>> witnesses.
>>>> And at this hour, I would like to hear the two women. I'm not sure that
>>>> the story is still their story...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some strange points must not be forgotten. Just some clues for new
>>>> readers of the case:
>>>>
>>>> - Feminist fighters should be very happy to see that nowadays police
>>>> force all around the world hunt rapers as it's done for Assange.
>>>> A famous feminist wrote about the case. Just search for Naomi Wolf.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/interpol-the-worlds-datin_b_793033.html
>>>>
>>>> - Assange already talked with Swedish authorities.
>>>> Convened because of Swedish demand, he went spontaneously to the London
>>>> police.
>>>>
>>>> - Swedish authorities aren't clear on the case, first closed and then
>>>> reopened:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rape-investigation-into-wikileaks-chief-reopens-2068162.html
>>>>
>>>> - It's well established that Assange had two love stories with fans in
>>>> Stockholm and then Enköping.
>>>> The first with the famous Anna Ardin, a feminist fighter whose blog
>>>> explained how to get revenge against men:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7569087-meet-anna-ardin-photos-anna-ardins-7-steps-to-legal-revenge
>>>>
>>>> And so on. It's not the good place for further analyzing that case. But
>>>> doubt is widely allowed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> @+, Dominique
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dominique Lacroix
>>>> Société européenne de l'Internet
>>>> http://www.ies-france.eu
>>>> +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14
>>>>
>>>> Le 19/08/12 16:11, Mawaki Chango a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Completely agree with Ginger here...
>>>> We can't pretend to ignore the elephant in the room: at this point
>>>> there's no part of this story that can be clearly separated from
>>>> Wikileaks - if only given all the shady zones in this imbroglio. And
>>>> yes, it is unfortunate that the rape issue is now and then exploited
>>>> in ways that can undermine legitimate claims. Again a lot remains
>>>> unclear, unfortunately, due to the behavior of the Sweden's
>>>> government.
>>>>
>>>> mawaki
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This may be IG related in the sense that WikiLeaks involves IG, and the
>>>> sexual misconduct case may (I say 'may' because I simply do not have all
>>>> of
>>>> the facts) be a manipulation of the WikiLeaks case.
>>>>
>>>> My firmest point is that the two issues should be separated, the sexual
>>>> misconduct case addressed, and the central case, WikiLeaks, get back in
>>>> focus.
>>>>
>>>> I dislike/resent the use of women/gender/sex as a tool that undermines
>>>> the
>>>> case for legitimate cases of sexual misconduct. If Assange/Assange's
>>>> lawyers
>>>> would force the sexual misconduct issue (without going to Sweden--on
>>>> video,
>>>> webinar, whatever), it would remove this distraction from the picture,
>>>> and
>>>> force the UK to show its hand. In the meantime, we cannot just ignore the
>>>> sexual misconduct allegations. Women and sexual misconduct charges should
>>>> not be used as legal manipulations and distractions.
>>>> Ginger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>>>>
>>>> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>>>> Diplo Foundation
>>>> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>>>> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 August 2012 08:48, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You know that the 5 biggest financial institutions Bank of America, Visa,
>>>> mastercard, wester union and paypal decided to block donations to
>>>> wikileaks
>>>> reducing it in 95%? Censorship? Have here an IG issue as requested for
>>>> some
>>>> people here?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but what have the 5 banks to do with Assange's alleged assaults?
>>>>
>>>> Don't get me wrong, wikileaks is incredibly important, but I do not see
>>>> the connection between the issues in this thread and Internet governance.
>>>> If you want to change the subject, fine :-)
>>>>
>>>> Pussy Riot more relevant, part of their "crime" being posting their
>>>> protest on the Internet.
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> you can still send donations using https://flattr.com/
>>>>
>>>> Carlos Vera
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>>>
>>>> El 19/08/2012, a las 6:42, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> escribió:
>>>>
>>>> Dominique, hi.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rape? Charged?
>>>>
>>>> Assange's lawyer's say accused. But the european arrest warrant the
>>>> UK believes it must enforce says he is wanted for prosecution. I'm
>>>> not a lawyer, not clue about the difference.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Assange is not (yet) charged. The judge only wants to ask him some
>>>> questions. Telecom provide some means, indeed...
>>>> 2. Rape? Perhaps some of us on this list, men AND women, are rapers at
>>>> a
>>>> Swedish sense:
>>>>
>>>> I very much hope not.
>>>>
>>>> Indecent assault isn't that common, is it? As you note the offense
>>>> carries a maximum 4 year sentence. Not trivial.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Under Swedish law, there are legal gradations of the definition of
>>>> rape.
>>>> There is the most serious kind, involving major violence.
>>>> But below that there is the concept of 'regular rape', still involving
>>>> violence but not violence of the utmost horror.
>>>> And below that there is the idea of 'unlawful coercion'. Talking
>>>> generally,
>>>> and not about the Assange case, this might involve putting emotional
>>>> pressure on someone.
>>>>
>>>> The three categories involve prison sentences of 10, six and four
>>>> years
>>>> respectively.
>>>> The lawyer for the two women who have complained against Mr Assange
>>>> will not
>>>> spell out the details because he says that would give too much away to
>>>> the
>>>> accused man. But he does indicate that it is a four-year sentence that
>>>> Mr
>>>> Assange could expect, indicating that he is suspected of this third,
>>>> less
>>>> serious category."
>>>>
>>>> And the great conclusion is:
>>>>
>>>> "The attitude towards rape in Sweden - informed by a strong sense of
>>>> women's
>>>> rights - means that it is more likely to be reported to police.
>>>> Some 53 rape offences are reported per 100,000 people, the highest
>>>> rate in
>>>> Europe.
>>>> The figures may reflect a higher number of actual rapes committed but
>>>> it
>>>> seems more likely that tough attitudes and a broader definition of the
>>>> crime
>>>> are more significant factors."
>>>>
>>>> See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11946652
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it a bit unbalanced, facing whistleblowers issue?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Adam, CIA or not CIA, this case seems to me two Internet
>>>> Governance
>>>> issues.
>>>> - Lawful here, unlawful there.
>>>> - Whistleblowers right at the Digital age.
>>>>
>>>> How would you deal with these questions?
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, don't get it, what has Assange's situation to do with Internet
>>>> governance, even in its broadest sense? He didn't do anything online
>>>> or on the Internet, he is accused of assaulting two women. And those
>>>> two people seem to be being very much overlooked at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> @+, Dominique
>>>>
>>>> Dominique Lacroix
>>>> Société européenne de l'Internet
>>>> http://www.ies-france.eu
>>>> +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 19/08/12 12:28, Fahd A. Batayneh a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I admire Assange. I am glad he has the courage to carry out his
>>>> WikiLeaks
>>>> work. I don't think he should be persecuted, or face politically
>>>> motivated
>>>> harassment or charge.
>>>>
>>>> >>> I don't think being a legitimate social hero allows him to avoid
>>>> facing
>>>>
>>>> charges of rape if the are legitimate.
>>>>
>>>> Ginger
>>>>
>>>> That makes us 2 Ginger. ROCK ON!
>>>>
>>>> Fahd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>> P.O. Box 17862
>> Suva
>> Fiji
>>
>> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>>
>>
>>
>>
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