[governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's vassal acts decisively and illegally
Mawaki Chango
kichango at gmail.com
Sun Aug 19 19:55:59 EDT 2012
If I may respond directly to this...
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Koven Ronald <kovenronald at aol.com> wrote:
> Dear All --
>
> Dear All --
>
> I've been very reluctant to get into this discussion about Assange, which
> really does have little or nothing to do with Internet governance (as others
> on the list have noted), but the standard conspiracy theories that seem to
> be favored by many on the list -- and which Assange also encourages --
> really don't seem to hold up to close scrutiny
Sometimes it's fine to be accused of conspiracy theory, for the fear
of such accusation may have the effect of getting people to be
complacent with the "mainstream's" version of things.
>
> Swedish sources who know what they are talking about say that the Swedish
> government is deeply embarassed by the whole mess, created by an
> uncontrollable, overzealous prosecutor who really sees this as an important
> feminist issue. Ironically, Assange is now being defended by a former
> Spanish investigating magistrate whose zeal was equally embarassing to the
> Spanish government.
Thanks for pointing out the Swedish government attitude in this, and
some of us needed to hear this part. So it wasn't a superfluous
caution when I referred more to Swedish judiciary than to Swedish
government in my first post in this thread.
>
> Quite aside from that, from my perspective and that of many of my most
> thoughtful American journalistic colleagues, it is clear that Assange is
> motivated by a very strong streak of political anti-Americanism -- that he
> means to embarass the US government as much as possible. That may be a
> perfectly legitimate for a political activist. But it undercuts any claim to
> be a journalist, Professional journalists aren't supposed to follow
> political agendas.
I'm not sure anyone has claimed that Assange is professional
journalist. At the maximum, you may call that citizen journalism, and
as such he is exposed to the same criticism as any other flavor of
citizen journalism.
One last thing, which is a personal reflection: this debate reminds me
of another one on freedom of speech while we were developing policy
for new gTLDs at ICANN's GNSO. On one side there were those who would
not accept any qualification whatsoever to freedom of speech for the
sake of preventing offensive speech of any sort in the internet
namespace. And on the other side, there were those who were calling
for such qualification. In this particular case of Wikileaks, it seems
the tables have turned, at least for some: the extreme defense of free
speech no longer applies, or maybe has never applied, to freedom of
information? Does anyone on this list still believe that policy -
including policy for technical infrastructure - does not involve
worldviews and values, which are diverse around the world, without
necessary the possibility to classified in a compelling manner which
ones are the best for everybody? And how do we negotiate the values
that will prevail for a global infrastructure? It seems to me those
are relevant questions we have been wrestling with in this space and
other IG-related forums for quite a while now.
Mawaki
Disclaimer: I think Assange is not a saint; he has the duty to answer
for his actions that fall under existing laws like any other citizens,
no more no less. My understanding is that most people who seem to keep
a critical eye on UK, Sweden (and maybe ultimately the US) in this are
not doing so necessarily for the individual Assange, but because they
are worry about the possibility of politically motivated charges. You
may call that conspiracy theory, but I suspect, from the arguments
they are making, that they have some good reasons not to rule out that
possibility as yet.
> Best regards, Rony Koven
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
> To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Ginger Paque
> <gpaque at gmail.com>
> Cc: Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 19, 2012 7:57 pm
> Subject: Re: [governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's
> vassal acts decisively and illegally
>
> Assange is referring to this as a witchhunt, see:
> http://www.newsday.com/news/world/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-calls-on-obama-to-end-witch-hunt-1.3913652
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 5:29 AM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Excellent post, Dominique. Gracias!
>>
>>
>> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>>
>> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>> Diplo Foundation
>> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 August 2012 12:25, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>> That story seems to be all about secret at the information age!
>>> Assange got 2 love stories. In both cases, the women invited him in her
>>> bed.
>>> The case is about what happened there. Sex by surprise? That should stay
>>> secret, as long as the women were not injured. Actually, they never
>>> complained for that.
>>>
>>> At the contrary, Bradley Manning and Wikileaks revealed what should not
>>> be kept secret:
>>> - Civilians (journalists and children) murders by US soldiers in Iraq.
>>>
>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/04/06/us-iraq-usa-journalists-idUSTRE6344FW20100406
>>> - Orders given to diplomates to spy UN leaders (DNA, passwords, credit
>>> card numbers etc.)
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un
>>> - And so on.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, of course I agree with Ginger and Mawaki: crime allegations
>>> are displaced manipulations AND we cannot just ignore the sexual misconduct
>>> allegations.
>>>
>>> But at this stage of the worldwide imbroglio, it's too late for having a
>>> neutral trial in Sweden. Could you imagine a Swedish Court concluding: "Much
>>> ado about nothing"? So public opinion mobilization is important. We are the
>>> witnesses.
>>> And at this hour, I would like to hear the two women. I'm not sure that
>>> the story is still their story...
>>>
>>>
>>> Some strange points must not be forgotten. Just some clues for new
>>> readers of the case:
>>>
>>> - Feminist fighters should be very happy to see that nowadays police
>>> force all around the world hunt rapers as it's done for Assange.
>>> A famous feminist wrote about the case. Just search for Naomi Wolf.
>>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/interpol-the-worlds-datin_b_793033.html
>>>
>>> - Assange already talked with Swedish authorities.
>>> Convened because of Swedish demand, he went spontaneously to the London
>>> police.
>>>
>>> - Swedish authorities aren't clear on the case, first closed and then
>>> reopened:
>>>
>>> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rape-investigation-into-wikileaks-chief-reopens-2068162.html
>>>
>>> - It's well established that Assange had two love stories with fans in
>>> Stockholm and then Enköping.
>>> The first with the famous Anna Ardin, a feminist fighter whose blog
>>> explained how to get revenge against men:
>>>
>>> http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7569087-meet-anna-ardin-photos-anna-ardins-7-steps-to-legal-revenge
>>>
>>> And so on. It's not the good place for further analyzing that case. But
>>> doubt is widely allowed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> @+, Dominique
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dominique Lacroix
>>> Société européenne de l'Internet
>>> http://www.ies-france.eu
>>> +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14
>>>
>>> Le 19/08/12 16:11, Mawaki Chango a écrit :
>>>
>>> Completely agree with Ginger here...
>>> We can't pretend to ignore the elephant in the room: at this point
>>> there's no part of this story that can be clearly separated from
>>> Wikileaks - if only given all the shady zones in this imbroglio. And
>>> yes, it is unfortunate that the rape issue is now and then exploited
>>> in ways that can undermine legitimate claims. Again a lot remains
>>> unclear, unfortunately, due to the behavior of the Sweden's
>>> government.
>>>
>>> mawaki
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This may be IG related in the sense that WikiLeaks involves IG, and the
>>> sexual misconduct case may (I say 'may' because I simply do not have all
>>> of
>>> the facts) be a manipulation of the WikiLeaks case.
>>>
>>> My firmest point is that the two issues should be separated, the sexual
>>> misconduct case addressed, and the central case, WikiLeaks, get back in
>>> focus.
>>>
>>> I dislike/resent the use of women/gender/sex as a tool that undermines
>>> the
>>> case for legitimate cases of sexual misconduct. If Assange/Assange's
>>> lawyers
>>> would force the sexual misconduct issue (without going to Sweden--on
>>> video,
>>> webinar, whatever), it would remove this distraction from the picture,
>>> and
>>> force the UK to show its hand. In the meantime, we cannot just ignore the
>>> sexual misconduct allegations. Women and sexual misconduct charges should
>>> not be used as legal manipulations and distractions.
>>> Ginger
>>>
>>>
>>> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>>>
>>> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>>> Diplo Foundation
>>> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>>> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 August 2012 08:48, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>>>
>>> You know that the 5 biggest financial institutions Bank of America, Visa,
>>> mastercard, wester union and paypal decided to block donations to
>>> wikileaks
>>> reducing it in 95%? Censorship? Have here an IG issue as requested for
>>> some
>>> people here?
>>>
>>> Yes, but what have the 5 banks to do with Assange's alleged assaults?
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong, wikileaks is incredibly important, but I do not see
>>> the connection between the issues in this thread and Internet governance.
>>> If you want to change the subject, fine :-)
>>>
>>> Pussy Riot more relevant, part of their "crime" being posting their
>>> protest on the Internet.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> you can still send donations using https://flattr.com/
>>>
>>> Carlos Vera
>>>
>>>
>>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>>
>>> El 19/08/2012, a las 6:42, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> escribió:
>>>
>>> Dominique, hi.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rape? Charged?
>>>
>>> Assange's lawyer's say accused. But the european arrest warrant the
>>> UK believes it must enforce says he is wanted for prosecution. I'm
>>> not a lawyer, not clue about the difference.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Assange is not (yet) charged. The judge only wants to ask him some
>>> questions. Telecom provide some means, indeed...
>>> 2. Rape? Perhaps some of us on this list, men AND women, are rapers at
>>> a
>>> Swedish sense:
>>>
>>> I very much hope not.
>>>
>>> Indecent assault isn't that common, is it? As you note the offense
>>> carries a maximum 4 year sentence. Not trivial.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Under Swedish law, there are legal gradations of the definition of
>>> rape.
>>> There is the most serious kind, involving major violence.
>>> But below that there is the concept of 'regular rape', still involving
>>> violence but not violence of the utmost horror.
>>> And below that there is the idea of 'unlawful coercion'. Talking
>>> generally,
>>> and not about the Assange case, this might involve putting emotional
>>> pressure on someone.
>>>
>>> The three categories involve prison sentences of 10, six and four
>>> years
>>> respectively.
>>> The lawyer for the two women who have complained against Mr Assange
>>> will not
>>> spell out the details because he says that would give too much away to
>>> the
>>> accused man. But he does indicate that it is a four-year sentence that
>>> Mr
>>> Assange could expect, indicating that he is suspected of this third,
>>> less
>>> serious category."
>>>
>>> And the great conclusion is:
>>>
>>> "The attitude towards rape in Sweden - informed by a strong sense of
>>> women's
>>> rights - means that it is more likely to be reported to police.
>>> Some 53 rape offences are reported per 100,000 people, the highest
>>> rate in
>>> Europe.
>>> The figures may reflect a higher number of actual rapes committed but
>>> it
>>> seems more likely that tough attitudes and a broader definition of the
>>> crime
>>> are more significant factors."
>>>
>>> See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11946652
>>>
>>> Isn't it a bit unbalanced, facing whistleblowers issue?
>>>
>>> Yes, Adam, CIA or not CIA, this case seems to me two Internet
>>> Governance
>>> issues.
>>> - Lawful here, unlawful there.
>>> - Whistleblowers right at the Digital age.
>>>
>>> How would you deal with these questions?
>>>
>>> Sorry, don't get it, what has Assange's situation to do with Internet
>>> governance, even in its broadest sense? He didn't do anything online
>>> or on the Internet, he is accused of assaulting two women. And those
>>> two people seem to be being very much overlooked at the moment.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> @+, Dominique
>>>
>>> Dominique Lacroix
>>> Société européenne de l'Internet
>>> http://www.ies-france.eu
>>> +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 19/08/12 12:28, Fahd A. Batayneh a écrit :
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I admire Assange. I am glad he has the courage to carry out his
>>> WikiLeaks
>>> work. I don't think he should be persecuted, or face politically
>>> motivated
>>> harassment or charge.
>>>
>>> >>> I don't think being a legitimate social hero allows him to avoid
>>> facing
>>>
>>> charges of rape if the are legitimate.
>>>
>>> Ginger
>>>
>>> That makes us 2 Ginger. ROCK ON!
>>>
>>> Fahd
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
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