[governance] FW: [csisac-members] MEASURING the Internet Economy

[michael gurstein]

Thanks for pointing to Jovan's "journey"... And yes, there are similar
signposts along his road and mine (FWIW I've put my note into a blogpost at 
http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/measuring-the-internet-economy-from
-a-civil-society-perspective/ where comments/reflections/critiques are
welcome.
 
Best for the weekend to one and all,
 
M

-----Original Message-----
From: Ginger Paque [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 1:29 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Cc: michael gurstein; Milton L Mueller
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: [csisac-members] MEASURING the Internet
Economy


This is an interesting discussion, touching upon the limitations of
knowledge and discussion themselves -- the rationality of science (or art)
and measurement, (do we measure what we find, or find what we measure?) what
is hard-wired, and where do emotions, biases and evolution meet rational
thought, philosophy and politics? Quite a range... So I found this Blog post
from Jovan Kurbalija this week, "What do black swans, CERN, Voltaire,
Rousseau and Borges have in common?" (he calls it "a Geneva epistemological
journey") to be an appropriate aside... I think you will enjoy it.
 
 
http://deepdip.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/what-do-black-swans-cern-voltaire-ro
usseau-and-borges-have-in-common/

Ginger 

On 1 September 2011 07:18, Daniel Kalchev <daniel at digsys.bg> wrote:




On 31.08.11 23:07, Milton L Mueller wrote:


If you can think of some simple way around this problem, more power to you.
You'll get the Nobel prize. But please don't trivialize the difficulty of
this problem, or attribute it to a conspiracy of evil neoliberals. (In fact,
Chinese and Soviet Marxists are famous for putting the most emphasis on the
production of physical goods and touting such statistics as proof of the
superiority of socialism).



This one reserved response, although some of the other points you debated
are important. Take it however you like, that will not change history.

But... believe it or not "they produce more so they claim to be superior" is
what that (most call it "comunist" although it never ever claimed to have
reached the 'communism' level) -- is exactly what was attributed to the
"other side", that is "The Imperialism".

So you see, both parties in that cold war pointed fingers at each other and
claimed that the other side is practicing what the other side was accusing
them of. Funny world.

In reality however (having lived in the last decades of that system and the
'new' system thereafter), I can definitely claim that you are wrong. That
system, possibly not a motivation but as a side effect (we will never know)
has assigned lower priority to greed and production/consumption - it had
significantly more focus on non-monetary benefits. Such as education and
social benefits. Also, production was much, much lower.
I do remember well our grandparent's opinion on this --- they have lived
before/during WW2 and could compare the quality of life before/during/after
that system --- and their opinion was very strong on this. So strong, that
for decades now we have the situation that the primary voters for the former
Communist (now, Socialist) Party were the so called "red grandmothers" --
who still lived in the past and their good memories were abused.

That system was far from perfect, of course. But your assertion about focus
on production is plain wrong. This all however is quite off-topic.

Except, by the way, we started our work on Internet in Bulgaria during that
system. Without the government even knowing it. Or the next few governments.

Daniel 

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