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<DIV><SPAN class=064172923-02092011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Thanks
for pointing to Jovan's "journey"... And yes, there are similar signposts along
his road and mine (FWIW I've put my note into a blogpost at </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=064172923-02092011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><A
href="http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/measuring-the-internet-economy-from-a-civil-society-perspective/">http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/measuring-the-internet-economy-from-a-civil-society-perspective/</A> where
comments/reflections/critiques are welcome.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=064172923-02092011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=064172923-02092011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Best
for the weekend to one and all,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=064172923-02092011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=064172923-02092011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>M</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ginger Paque
[mailto:gpaque@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 02, 2011 1:29
PM<BR><B>To:</B> governance@lists.cpsr.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> michael gurstein;
Milton L Mueller<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [governance] FW: [csisac-members]
MEASURING the Internet Economy<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>This is an interesting discussion, touching upon the
limitations of knowledge and discussion themselves -- the rationality of
science (or art) and measurement, (do we measure what we find, or find
what we measure?) what is hard-wired, and where do emotions, biases
and evolution meet rational thought, philosophy and politics? Quite a
range... So I found this Blog post from Jovan Kurbalija this week, "What
do black swans, CERN, Voltaire, Rousseau and Borges have in common?" (he calls
it "a Geneva epistemological journey") to be an appropriate aside... I think
you will enjoy it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> <A
href="http://deepdip.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/what-do-black-swans-cern-voltaire-rousseau-and-borges-have-in-common/">http://deepdip.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/what-do-black-swans-cern-voltaire-rousseau-and-borges-have-in-common/</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=all>Ginger </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On 1 September 2011 07:18, Daniel Kalchev <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:daniel@digsys.bg">daniel@digsys.bg</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=im><BR><BR>On 31.08.11 23:07, Milton L Mueller wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>If you can think of some simple way around this problem,
more power to you. You'll get the Nobel prize. But please don't trivialize
the difficulty of this problem, or attribute it to a conspiracy of evil
neoliberals. (In fact, Chinese and Soviet Marxists are famous for putting
the most emphasis on the production of physical goods and touting such
statistics as proof of the superiority of
socialism).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>This one reserved response, although
some of the other points you debated are important. Take it however you
like, that will not change history.<BR><BR>But... believe it or not "they
produce more so they claim to be superior" is what that (most call it
"comunist" although it never ever claimed to have reached the 'communism'
level) -- is exactly what was attributed to the "other side", that is "The
Imperialism".<BR><BR>So you see, both parties in that cold war pointed
fingers at each other and claimed that the other side is practicing what the
other side was accusing them of. Funny world.<BR><BR>In reality however
(having lived in the last decades of that system and the 'new' system
thereafter), I can definitely claim that you are wrong. That system,
possibly not a motivation but as a side effect (we will never know) has
assigned lower priority to greed and production/consumption - it had
significantly more focus on non-monetary benefits. Such as education and
social benefits. Also, production was much, much lower.<BR>I do remember
well our grandparent's opinion on this --- they have lived before/during WW2
and could compare the quality of life before/during/after that system ---
and their opinion was very strong on this. So strong, that for decades now
we have the situation that the primary voters for the former Communist (now,
Socialist) Party were the so called "red grandmothers" -- who still lived in
the past and their good memories were abused.<BR><BR>That system was far
from perfect, of course. But your assertion about focus on production is
plain wrong. This all however is quite off-topic.<BR><BR>Except, by the way,
we started our work on Internet in Bulgaria during that system. Without the
government even knowing it. Or the next few governments.<BR><FONT
color=#888888><BR>Daniel</FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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