[governance] MSism and democracy

[Tapani Tarvainen]

On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 09:44:13PM -0300, Roxana Goldstein (goldstein.roxana at gmail.com) wrote:

> Tapani, I really do not understand what is your point.

My apologies for being unclear.

> Perhaps are your interests being affected by my point of view?

I have no personal interests (as in money stakes) here, if that's
what you mean. (I suspect English translation problem here.)

But I am definitely interested in having my understanding of the issue
and my opinions changed by what you're saying - that's the primary
reason why I am engaging in this debate.

> It is another waste of time trying to find something hidden in my
> message. I am a very direct person both face to face and virtually, so what
> I say is what I think, no second intentions.

I didn't intend to imply you had a hidden agenda.
I was just trying to explore the possible consequences of
your ideas.

I may have missed key parts of your ideas in some of your Spanish
messages, but I have failed to see what kind of solution you envisioned.

All I could see in the way of concrete proposals were
(1) automatic translation is bad and
(2) the society/state(s) should solve the problem, not individuals.

Which is not very much to go by. So I wanted to open them up a bit.

> 3. We must not loose our time in a personal debate -taking the debate to a
> personal confrontation-,

Of course not, that was not my intention.
Please don't take disagreement on issues as personal!

Indeed I must confess surprise at that accusation, but
then I realized we're having yet another language issue here -
not along the English/Spanish/whatever line, but across it,
using different styles within the same language.

I come from science/academic background, used to the idea that
truth and best solutions are found with debate, thorough and
merciless attempt to find any flaws in all arguments and
ideas presented - where expression of disagreement is
not a personal attack but a compliment, implying the
idea is worth analysing and working on, not a dismissal.
Good ideas are debated, the more fiercely the better they are,
bad ideas are simply ignored.

And I do think debate, even strong and confrontational, is useful,
not waste of time - but debate on *issues*, not personal.

> instead, let's use this space to debate on policies, solutions, for
> the intercultural communication issue

Absolutely. That's exactly what I've been trying to do.
My apologies for expressing myself poorly.

Sincerely,

-- 
Tapani Tarvainen
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