[governance] MSism and democracy

[Roxana Goldstein]

Tapani, I really do not understand what is your point. Perhaps are your
interests being affected by my point of view?

In any case, I have only three things to say:

1. I am far from having a binary thinking -black or white-. So I think it is
a waste of time carrying this debate to a dual situation -automatic
translators yes or no-.

2. It is another waste of time trying to find something hidden in my
message. I am a very direct person both face to face and virtually, so what
I say is what I think, no second intentions.

3. We must not loose our time in a personal debate -taking the debate to a
personal confrontation-, instead, let's use this space to debate on
policies, solutions, for the intercultural communication issue -still
pending, no doubt about it-.

Finnaly, send my regards to Pekka Kuusisto..... I understand him very
well....not in finnish but his music!!!!! :))...he is comming to Buenos
Aires next august....

Best wishes,
Roxana


2011/6/9 Tapani Tarvainen <tapani.tarvainen at effi.org>

> On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 10:47:36AM -0300, Roxana Goldstein (
> goldstein.roxana at gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > What I want everyone in this list to understand, is that this
> -translation-
> > is not a problem of a sole person (a "one" or a "you"), but a problem of
> the
> > whole society, if you want.
>
> Well, yes, although it really is both.
>
> > huge groups of people are underrepresented in
> > the IG processes, an this is not an individual problem, but a political
> > problem -the whole global, national, local societies are involved-.
> >
> > Meaning this that is not a problem that each person must solve alone, but
> a
> > problem that institutions must take into account and then put in place
> > solutions.
>
> Yes, I certainly agree that institutional measures are called for
> (I presume you don't mean individuals don't need to worry about it at all).
>
> > If society decides to implement the solution to translation by automatic
> > translators, it means that the problem is not being faced in an adecuate
> > way,
>
> Here I must disagree, however, at least to a degree.
>
> > as facts show that they have not been enough to allow every group in
> > the global society to have equal opportunities to participate and
> > influence in the IG processes.
>
> That is true enough - automatic translators are still rather poor and
> haven't solved the problem anywhere near adequately. But they've
> improved so much that I'd never believed it possible when I first
> started studying them some 30 years ago, and I can't really imagine
> anything better to help speakers of small languages that could
> actually happen in the foreseeable future.
>
> There's simply no way we could make professional interpretation
> available anywhere near as universally as machine translation
> could easily be: insisting on that would, if it could be succesful,
> severely restrict our communications rather than enhance them.
>
> So if you are saying we should not devote resources on automatic
> translators and their improvement, I strongly disagree.
>
> But if you mean we should not consider the problem solved by them in
> their present (or even foreseeable) state or forego other measures
> while waiting for them to improve, I wholeheartedly agree.
>
> Automatic translators are just one tool, which I hope and expect will
> keep on getting better, but we do need to pursue other means as well.
>
> > It is not only that each of us must decide alone if she/he will run
> > the risk of being understood or not in her/his first language, on
> > the contrary, it is a problem of all of us to allow every group in
> > this wonderful world to be heard and to be understood and to have
> > equal rights to influence policy.
>
> I think I'll suppress my cynicism/pessimism/realism here and
> just say that I really love that.
>
> --
> Tapani Tarvainen
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