Tapani, I really do not understand what is your point. Perhaps are your interests being affected by my point of view?<div><br></div><div>In any case, I have only three things to say:</div><div><br></div><div>1. I am far from having a binary thinking -black or white-. So I think it is a waste of time carrying this debate to a dual situation -automatic translators yes or no-.</div>
<div><br></div><div>2. It is another waste of time trying to find something hidden in my message. I am a very direct person both face to face and virtually, so what I say is what I think, no second intentions.</div><div><br>
</div><div>3. We must not loose our time in a personal debate -taking the debate to a personal confrontation-, instead, let's use this space to debate on policies, solutions, for the intercultural communication issue -still pending, no doubt about it-.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Finnaly, send my regards to Pekka Kuusisto..... I understand him very well....not in finnish but his music!!!!! :))...he is comming to Buenos Aires next august....</div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div>
<div>Roxana</div><div><br><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/6/9 Tapani Tarvainen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tapani.tarvainen@effi.org">tapani.tarvainen@effi.org</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 10:47:36AM -0300, Roxana Goldstein (<a href="mailto:goldstein.roxana@gmail.com">goldstein.roxana@gmail.com</a>) wrote:<br>
<br>
> What I want everyone in this list to understand, is that this -translation-<br>
> is not a problem of a sole person (a "one" or a "you"), but a problem of the<br>
> whole society, if you want.<br>
<br>
</div>Well, yes, although it really is both.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> huge groups of people are underrepresented in<br>
> the IG processes, an this is not an individual problem, but a political<br>
> problem -the whole global, national, local societies are involved-.<br>
><br>
> Meaning this that is not a problem that each person must solve alone, but a<br>
> problem that institutions must take into account and then put in place<br>
> solutions.<br>
<br>
</div>Yes, I certainly agree that institutional measures are called for<br>
(I presume you don't mean individuals don't need to worry about it at all).<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> If society decides to implement the solution to translation by automatic<br>
> translators, it means that the problem is not being faced in an adecuate<br>
> way,<br>
<br>
</div>Here I must disagree, however, at least to a degree.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> as facts show that they have not been enough to allow every group in<br>
> the global society to have equal opportunities to participate and<br>
> influence in the IG processes.<br>
<br>
</div>That is true enough - automatic translators are still rather poor and<br>
haven't solved the problem anywhere near adequately. But they've<br>
improved so much that I'd never believed it possible when I first<br>
started studying them some 30 years ago, and I can't really imagine<br>
anything better to help speakers of small languages that could<br>
actually happen in the foreseeable future.<br>
<br>
There's simply no way we could make professional interpretation<br>
available anywhere near as universally as machine translation<br>
could easily be: insisting on that would, if it could be succesful,<br>
severely restrict our communications rather than enhance them.<br>
<br>
So if you are saying we should not devote resources on automatic<br>
translators and their improvement, I strongly disagree.<br>
<br>
But if you mean we should not consider the problem solved by them in<br>
their present (or even foreseeable) state or forego other measures<br>
while waiting for them to improve, I wholeheartedly agree.<br>
<br>
Automatic translators are just one tool, which I hope and expect will<br>
keep on getting better, but we do need to pursue other means as well.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> It is not only that each of us must decide alone if she/he will run<br>
> the risk of being understood or not in her/his first language, on<br>
> the contrary, it is a problem of all of us to allow every group in<br>
> this wonderful world to be heard and to be understood and to have<br>
> equal rights to influence policy.<br>
<br>
</div>I think I'll suppress my cynicism/pessimism/realism here and<br>
just say that I really love that.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5">Tapani Tarvainen<br>
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