[governance] Re: The Internet (as we know it) can never be "private"

[Roland Perry]

In message 
<CAJwbTiDaiUhk-h97Yr3n8zcF6_TSH0kSDXJ-gn3H3aJXhu5RRA at mail.gmail.com>, at 
22:18:25 on Sun, 17 Jul 2011, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro 
<salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> writes

>I would like to link the reason why I asked the questions back to the
>general thread: if the internet is "public" why is it that some get
>marginalised.

Airlines are "public" transport (in the sense that anyone can use them. 
They are even publicly owned in some cases (less so in modern times I 
agree). None of this makes it the same price to fly inside Africa (which 
I understand is also an issue) as to fly inside Europe or the USA.

> I do not know much about Kenya except for the little I have read but I
>will say this, it is easy for you to say that people should stop
>whinging about high international internet costs.

People are entitles to complain, but I am also entitled to point out 
that there are good reasons for the difference in costs. It's not a 
conspiracy by the developed world, and indeed much of the developed 
world had the same costs as recently as a decade ago. Rather than sit 
waiting for someone to give you a free lunch, why not try to solve the 
problem by investing in connectivity, just like everyone else had to?

>I don't think the paper agreed with you, it actually disagreed with
>your position.

It agreed with me that it's users (not ISPs) who pay. That's half the 
original proposition shot down in flames. Yes, we disagree from there 
onwards!

>In principle, the point is that an ordinary user in a
>developing world (Kenya) had to be forced and probably is still being
>forced to carry someone else's cost. Where is the fairness/equity?

They aren't being forced to pay *anyone* else's cost. The cost is the 
cost of connecting to the Internet. It's not my fault they currently 
live somewhere far from the Interconnections which *define* "The 
Internet", and that Americans live nearer.

You might as well say it's someone's fault that a Kenyan has to pay a 
fortune in travelling expense to visit Disneyland, but a Florida 
resident doesn't. Answer: build your own Disneyland closer to home, 
rather than forcing an airline to cross the Atlantic for nothing.

>Back to the internet as a "public" good - if it is how then can the
>governance forum address these issues. To you it may be a half a
>circuit fallacy but to the people in the developing world this is a
>harsh reality.

If you want to fix the problem (and there *is* a problem), then *please* 
express it using the correct parameters. You'll never make progress 
trying to cure the *wrong* disease, any more than you'll cure a brain 
tumour by taking aspirin for the headache (or passing a law that says 
everyone must have cheap aspirin available).

Roland.

>On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Roland Perry <roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
>  In message <CAJwbTiA0kuDBGgJ81jrAYeUTkjBF  SLZaWB2zVeWQJezxjK7AOA at mail.gmail.com>, at 21:05:58 on Sun, 17 Jul
>  2011, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@  gmail.com> writes
>    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1931120.stm
>  Yes, I know. The half-circuit fallacy has got plenty of air-time.
>  Perhaps we can move on, and try to fit round pegs in round holes,
>  rather than complaining it costs too much money to push square pegs
>  into round holes?
>  --
>  Roland Perry
>  ____________________________________________________________
>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>  To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>  For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>  To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>  Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>--
>Sala
> 
>"Stillness in the midst of the noise".
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t