[governance] Parminder's exchange with Bertrand

[Parminder]

Milton:
But suppose we called it "popular sovereignty" and "individual rights" 
instead of "multistakeholderism" -  would that not allow individuals, in 
various aggregations, to produce the appropriate mix of law, order, 
economy and conscience? Is not the division into three estates (with 
millions of individuals overlapping and participating in two or more at 
the same time) artificial?

Parminder:
I agree with Milton's doubts whether the MS framework contributes 
anything new (in a positive sense) for organising our political systems. 
What does the term stakeholder groups bring in beyond what we already 
know as 'interest groups', a basic and a widely used concept  of  
representative democracy. Unless those arguing for MS-ism as the basic 
new governance form clearly articulate a response to this question, it 
is difficult to go any further in this discussion.

Bertrand (in response to Milton):
Do you actually mean a sort of "personal sovereignty" principle, that 
would enable individuals to gather in numerous human groupings, 
including nations, but also business and non-profit entities ?

Parminder:

This brings me to the gorilla-in-the-room question of MS-ism - the role 
and legitimacy of big business in political structures.

It is important to discuss how, at a theoretical level, organization 
into a business unit is very different from political interest based 
collectives - governments, or non-gov bodies. Again, this is a principal 
issue that needs to be clarified by Ms-ists. The conflation of 
'interests' and structures of business organization - especially of the 
trans-global share capital based kind - with human organisations and 
collectives with shared 'lifeworld' (a world that subjects may 
experience together) based interests  is very problematic, and requires 
clarification. I had proposed a thorough analysis of the term 'stake' 
and stakeholder in each context before we hurry to confer legitimate 
political power in hands of any MS system.



Bertrand de La Chapelle wrote:
> Milton,
>
> Do you actually mean a sort of "personal sovereignty" principle, that 
> would enable individuals to gather in numerous human groupings, 
> including nations, but also business and non-profit entities ? so that 
> the unifying governance unit becomes stakeholders of various sizes but 
> with equal status instead of three (or four) separate and siloed 
> stakeholder groups ?
>
> B.
>
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu 
> <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>> wrote:
>
>
>     ________________________________________
>     From: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [ocl at gih.com <mailto:ocl at gih.com>]
>
>     > - governments: law and order
>     > - business: economy and money
>     >- civil society: conscience
>     >
>     >Any social ecosystem requires all three to work. Take one out and
>     either
>     >the system will fail, tear itself apart, or reach an untenable
>     extreme.
>     >That's why I believe in multi-stakeholderism.
>
>     Nice formulation, Olivier. But suppose we called it "popular
>     sovereignty" and "individual rights" instead of
>     "multistakeholderism" -  would that not allow individuals, in
>     various aggregations, to produce the appropriate mix of law,
>     order, economy and conscience? Is not the division into three
>     estates (with millions of individuals overlapping and
>     participating in two or more at the same time) artificial?
>
>     --MM____________________________________________________________
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>
> -- 
> ____________________
> Bertrand de La Chapelle
> Délégué Spécial pour la Société de l'Information / Special Envoy for 
> the Information Society
> Ministère des Affaires Etrangères et Européennes/ French Ministry of 
> Foreign and European Affairs
> Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32
>
> "Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de 
> Saint Exupéry
> ("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")
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