[governance] Parminder's exchange with Bertrand

[Bertrand de La Chapelle]

Milton, Avri, can you agree with triggering the Godwin escape button ?

You have both valid points but are talking past one another on different
planes : good and bad things in history obviously come from the fortunate or
unfortunate combination between individual leaders and groups. Combinations
vary but it's not either/or. May I ask you both to continue this specific
exchange at the next opportunity you have for a drink ? You both can
contribute much more on the rest of the thread.

More generally on that topic, this is how I see history :
****

Cynics will tell you that history is all about kings and wars. Do not
believe them. History is about visions and the efforts of humans to manage
their growing and increasingly complex societies.

Through an unrelenting competition of ideas in the scientific and political
spheres, they try to explain how the world works and how human societies
can/should organize.

In a nutshell : *“World history is the constant effort of mankind towards
better** collective organization”*

I strongly believe this is what our present task is -  and what this
discussion is all about.

I can of course be accused of being a relentless optimist. But the
philosopher Alain famously said : Pessimism is about Mood; Optimism is about
Will. (le Pessimisme est d'humeur, l'optimisme est de volonté". And Jean
Monnet, who initiated the European Union process said : "I'm not optimistic,
I'm determined". (Je ne suis pas optimiste, je suis déterminé).

I hope this helps.

Best

Bertrand

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

>
>
> Well spotted McTim! For the uninitiated from Wikipedia-
>
> *Godwin's Law* (also known as *Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies* or *Godwin's
> Law of Nazi Analogies*) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in
> 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion
> grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler
> approaches”
>
> Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against
> the use of arguments in the widespread *reductio ad Hitlerum * form. The
> rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or
> comparison to Adolf Hitler  or the Nazis  might be appropriate, but only
> asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising
> increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a
> comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued
>  that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it
> robs the valid comparisons of their impact.
>
> Also there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion
> forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *<governance at lists.cpsr.org>, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:56:45 +0300
> *To: *<governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> *Cc: *Avri Doria <avri at psg.com>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [governance] Parminder's exchange with Bertrand
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
> I think your view is incredibly unrealistic, even bizarre. Authoritarian
> monsters like Hitler
>
>
> Godwin.
>
> Let's move on.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
> ------------------------------
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-- 
____________________
Bertrand de La Chapelle
Délégué Spécial pour la Société de l'Information / Special Envoy for the
Information Society
Ministère des Affaires Etrangères et Européennes/ French Ministry of Foreign
and European Affairs
Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32

"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de Saint
Exupéry
("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")
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