AW: [governance] ICANN/USG Affirmation of Commitments

Wed Oct 7 00:51:58 EDT 2009

Wolfgang (and Avri and McTim)

We are all very unhappy with our present 'representative' democratic 
governance regimes, and seek to add more participatory layers and levers 
to it. You would not believe the kind of work being done or at least 
attempted  in India on this. we are ourselves are strongly in some such 
project, known variously under the labels of 'deepening democracy', 
communitization, open government, or even participatory development 
processes. So, the virtue of improving governance system by enhancing 
participation cannot be claimed solely by certain global efforts, often 
with techno-centric notions of assumed equality of people to start with, 
highly individualized with disregard to social  groups based exclusions, 
and also ignnoring many other structural issues.

In the specific context of governance of digital spaces (but also in the 
larger context) what is more significant ignored by these efforts or 
claims of new systems of direct and participatory democracy is the 
simultaneous, and strongly manifest, move towards corporates taking 
control of much of global 'governance' which to say the least is not 
democracy enhancing. They mostly just close their eyes to it. The 
neo-liberal system takes a lot of advantage  of this  fact, if not 
acquiescence. Multistakeholder models of policy making have been used in 
India to bring in monopolistic exploitative software models in schools 
in India and to lock in schools to paid commercial content rather than 
explore the best potential of collaborative content for schools....

I often and in a very engaged manner discuss the possibilities of new 
participatory forms to enhance our democracies with anyone who share our 
fears of what neoliberlaism is, or use the simpler word corporates are, 
doing - not in one-off but a systematic manner - to the fibre and future 
of our democracies. I dont engage so well if I do not notice sensitivity 
(without needing to completely agree with me) to this issue on the other 
side.... This corresponds to the reaosn why so many who are so strongly 
engaged with promoting people's democracy or participative democracy, 
especially in developing countries  (read about one of India foremost 
grassroots movements Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan) look askance at, in 
fact are mostly directly critical of, these new techno-centric visions 
of new forms of governance, without focusing enough on how their vision 
and efforts get placed in the overall struggle for democracy and social 
justice...

parminder

Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
> Dear Paul 
>  
> you describe and defebnd the classical "representative democracy" of the 20th century. Good points. Very good points. 
>  
> However, in the complexity of the 21st century the "chain of representation" gets longer and looner and there is less and less a direct relationship between the input of the people and the output of a government. Do you really believe, that a diplomat sitting in a UN meeting and discussing very concrete and difficult technical issue represents "her/his people"? In the best way she/he follows the instructions from her/his capital. In the worst sense she/he is doing wha she/he wants because nobody controls her/him. If she/he is a good guy you get a good solution. If she/he is a bad guy it is sad and bad. 
>  
> What the Internet has enabled is to add a layer which can combine representative with participatory democracy. The principle of multistakeholderism is the very concrete outcome of this development. It is still very early and we are exploring how it could work. But going back to the past would be the wrong turn to meet the challenges of the future (with all respect to President Truman who also order the drop of the first nuclar bomb to Hiroshoma). 
>  
> Best wishes
>  
> wolfgang
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: Paul Lehto [mailto:lehto.paul at gmail.com]
> Gesendet: Di 06.10.2009 18:52
> An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Avri Doria
> Betreff: Re: [governance] ICANN/USG Affirmation of Commitments
>
>
>
> Have you ever heard of the "consent of the governed?"  There's more
> than one way that consent of the governed can be achieved, but nobody
> seriously believes and defends the position publicly that there's any
> legitimate political authority outside some nexus to *elections* among
> the people (such as electing representatives who then elect
> ambassadors or delegates to an ICANN board or congress, etc.)
>
> Are you, Avri Doria, really saying what it seems you're saying:
> Elections are too difficult in your mind so they will be dispensed
> with, or can be, in the interest of efficiency?
>
> In any case, as President Harry Truman said "If you want efficiency,
> you'll get a dictatorship."
>
> This is because Democracy's core values don't always dictate
> efficiency.  In fact, things like separation of powers and checks and
> balances are in fact redundant inefficiencies that a strongman
> dictator could well streamline and save money and time on.  Democracy,
> by contrast, is a commitment to serial public discussions and votes
> (and therefore disputes) lasting... forever -- or at least as long as
> freedom and democracy lasts.
>
> Paul Lehto, Juris Doctor
>
> On 10/6/09, Avri Doria <avri at psg.com> wrote:
>   
>> On 6 Oct 2009, at 11:57, Paul Lehto wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> The only
>>> legitimate way to fully claim the public interest mantle is by having
>>> a mandate via consent of the governed from the people as a whole.
>>>       
>> does this mean that until everyone in the world votes, ICANN will
>> never be legitimate according to you?
>>
>> a.
>>
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>
>
> --
> Paul R Lehto, J.D.
> P.O. Box #1
> Ishpeming, MI  49849
> lehto.paul at gmail.com
> 906-204-4026
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