[governance] RE: On the process of proposing workshop themes

Sun Mar 29 03:13:20 EDT 2009

Hello Lisa Horner
Thank you for this very positive message. I am quoting extracts from your
message http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2009-03/msg00229.html.
 My responses in line.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Lisa Horner <lisa at global-partners.co.uk>wrote:

>  Hi Sivasubramanian and all
>
>  So, we're interested in looking at whether different stakeholders can
> agree on certain values that they think should underpin internet governance
> and use, such as open access to information and culture/participatory
> governance/accessibility.
>

If the caucus LISTENS to the messages posted by participants - posted with
diverse styles of expression-  it would become evident that most of us agree
that FoE is important, most us agree that censorship is undesirable, all of
us are pro-access, and that all of us are committed to an Internet preserved
as what it is.There is a lot more that we can agree upon.

>  If a number of stakeholders can agree that certain values are important,
> what exact issues need to be addressed to realise those values?
>

The problems in most cases relate to the way the issues are defined or
expressed. The approaches differ, but the cause is common and shared. We
need to pay attention to the approaches and methods.

> What policy principles can help to do this, both general and specific?  In
> other words, how can we practically move on from talking about human rights
> on the internet to actually upholding them, based on multi-stakeholder
> collaboration?
>
>
Speaking for me, I want the same Internet with the same characteristics that
the Rights Coalition believes that it can achieve with a proclamation of
rights. But my concerns are that I may end up with an Internet with unknown
changes if we adopt the rights based approach.

>
> So - in answer to your question - we're not thinking in terms of enacting
> new laws, but rather about developing new approaches to the issues, rooted
> in the overall mission of expanding human rights.
>

I am positive that it is none of your intention to enact new laws.  But I
fear that the rights based approach would inevitably lead to that
undesirable outcome.

> Some government stakeholders might argue they have a moral right to filter
> the internet, but others might believe in core values of openness.
>

Government comprises of people like all of us, in temporary hats of
authority.  They live lives same as that of the common man as they step out
of their chambers every evening. It is not an impossible task to get the
Governments from negatively altering the way we live. The laws they enact
have an equal impact in the lives of the same people who enact them. So it
is not very difficult to work with Governments to make the policy more
sensitive to civil concerns.

> I saw that you proposed a workshop or discussion on values for the internet
> on this list - I suspect we're thinking along similar lines!
>

Yes, we haven't realized that we are essentially in agreement !  It is a
good sign that you suspect that we are in agreement. And I suspect that it
more than a mere suspicion and rather believe that it is a clear indication
of harmony.

It is very positive that you are researching further along these lines. It
doesn't mean anything that it was I who proposed the workshop on core
values. The workshop belongs to the Coalition, it belongs to the Caucus, as
a workshop on core values, fundamentals, or by whatever terms the Caucus
chooses to title it. If the workshop is steered to list and define the core
values,  we will discover an amazing unity of purpose in all of us.

Thank you.
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
India.

>
> All the best,
> Lisa
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wed 25/03/2009 18:12
> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Lisa Horner
>
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] RE: On the process of proposing workshop
> themes
>
>  Hello Lisa Horner,
>
> Perhaps the workshop could address aspects related to the Rights of
> Governments, apart from focussing on the Rights of the Users?  Governments
> of the world might want to argue that they have a right to demand certain
> content removed - You Tube has faced such rights based requests in the
> recent past and now.
>
> Governments would like to argue that they have a moral right to filter, and
> to censor inappropriate content ????
>
> What is this "rights-based values and principles for internet governance"
> any way? Define rights, principles and then enact laws according to the
> agreed values and principles ???
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
> India.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lisa Horner <lisa at global-partners.co.uk>wrote:
>
>>  Hi Divina and all
>>
>> Just a quick note to say that I intend to submit a workshop proposal on
>> "rights and the internet" issues, focussing on the approach of building
>> discussion and agreement around rights-based values and principles for
>> internet governance.  I'm doing some work on this this year in association
>> with other groups, and the workshop would be a way of feeding back on
>> progress and continuing the debate from last year's 'mainstreaming rights'
>> workshop.  Thoughts/comments/collaboration welcome!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lisa Horner
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Divina MEIGS [mailto:divina.meigs at orange.fr]
>> *Sent:* Wed 25/03/2009 08:46
>> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; mueller at syr.edu
>> *Cc:* Muehlberg, Annette; pimienta at funredes.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] RE: On the process of proposing workshop
>> themes
>>
>>
>> Dear all
>>
>> I agree very much on Milton’s rationale for putting up themes (as stated
>> below) because they seem essential even though one is not in the best
>> position to organize them.
>>
>> I’ll suggest three, picking up on my memory from past exchanges, and
>> because they haven’t re-emerged:
>>         1) the future of *labour *in internet governance. That’s a theme
>> that hasn’t emerged and yet it is central to policy-making, not to mention
>> to labour itself. There are different scenarii around cognitive capitalism,
>> individual entrepreneurship, labor value vs. knowledge value... And it is
>> especially timely with the current crisis... But i am not an economist and i
>> am not a trade unionist....
>>
>>         2) the internet *rights* or a human rights based internet
>> issue... That remains undecided and in spite of much discussion it seems to
>> have disappeared...
>>
>>         3) media and information l*iteracy*/education in the information
>> society is one close to my heart. It is urgent to propose and develop global
>> policies on the theme, in connection with intellectual property rights, but
>> also open educational ressources on line, the future of universities,
>> sustainable development....
>>
>> Hoping some of you will continue the thread,...
>>
>> Divina Frau-Meigs
>>
>> Le 24/03/09 21:44, « Milton L Mueller » <mueller at syr.edu> a écrit :
>>
>>  the proposal to call for expressions of interest on themes rather than
>>  full-fledged workshop proposals at that stage (they will naturally come
>>  later). It has the benefit of sensing the level of interest on various
>> themes  but also allows people who do not intend to organize a workshop
>> themselves to  indicate that they think a specific topic should be
>> addressed. This is what I  did last year by putting an early placeholder in
>> favor of a workshop on  "dimensions of cybersecurity" while indicating that
>> I did not intend to  organize it myself.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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