Hello Lisa Horner<div><br></div><div>Thank you for this very positive message. I am quoting extracts from your message <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2009-03/msg00229.html">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2009-03/msg00229.html</a>. My responses in line.</div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Lisa Horner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lisa@global-partners.co.uk">lisa@global-partners.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">Hi Sivasubramanian and all</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; "> So, we're interested in looking at whether different stakeholders can agree on certain values that they think should underpin internet governance and use, such as open access to information and culture/participatory governance/accessibility. </span></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If the caucus LISTENS to the messages posted by participants - posted with diverse styles of expression- it would become evident that most of us agree that FoE is important, most us agree that censorship is undesirable, all of us are pro-access, and that all of us are committed to an Internet preserved as what it is.There is a lot more that we can agree upon.<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; "> If a number of stakeholders can agree that certain values are important, what exact issues need to be addressed to realise those values? </span></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>The problems in most cases relate to the way the issues are defined or expressed. The approaches differ, but the cause is common and shared. We need to pay attention to the approaches and methods.</div>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">What policy principles can help to do this, both general and specific? In other words, how can we practically move on from talking about human rights on the internet to actually upholding them, based on multi-stakeholder collaboration? </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Speaking for me, I want the same Internet with the same characteristics that the Rights Coalition believes that it can achieve with a proclamation of rights. But my concerns are that I may end up with an Internet with unknown changes if we adopt the rights based approach. </div>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">So - in answer to your question - we're not thinking in terms of enacting new laws, but rather about developing new approaches to the issues, rooted in the overall mission of expanding human rights. </font></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div>I am positive that it is none of your intention to enact new laws. But I fear that the rights based approach would inevitably lead to that undesirable outcome.<br></div><div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">Some government stakeholders might argue they have a moral right to filter the internet, but others might believe in core values of openness. </font></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Government comprises of people like all of us, in temporary hats of authority. They live lives same as that of the common man as they step out of their chambers every evening. It is not an impossible task to get the Governments from negatively altering the way we live. The laws they enact have an equal impact in the lives of the same people who enact them. So it is not very difficult to work with Governments to make the policy more sensitive to civil concerns. </div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> I saw that you proposed a workshop or discussion on values for the internet on this list - I suspect we're thinking along similar lines!</font></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Yes, we haven't realized that we are essentially in agreement ! It is a good sign that you suspect that we are in agreement. And I suspect that it more than a mere suspicion and rather believe that it is a clear indication of harmony. </div>
<div><br></div><div>It is very positive that you are researching further along these lines. It doesn't mean anything that it was I who proposed the workshop on core values. The workshop belongs to the Coalition, it belongs to the Caucus, as a workshop on core values, fundamentals, or by whatever terms the Caucus chooses to title it. If the workshop is steered to list and define the core values, we will discover an amazing unity of purpose in all of us.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thank you.</div><div>Sivasubramanian Muthusamy</div><div>India.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div dir="ltr">
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<div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; ">All the best,</span><br></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">Lisa</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div></div>
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<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> Wed 25/03/2009 18:12<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; Lisa Horner<div>
<div></div><div class="h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: On the process of proposing workshop themes<br></div></div></font><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
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<div>Hello Lisa Horner,</div>
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<div>Perhaps the workshop could address aspects related to the Rights of Governments, apart from focussing on the Rights of the Users? Governments of the world might want to argue that they have a right to demand certain content removed - You Tube has faced such rights based requests in the recent past and now.</div>
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<div>Governments would like to argue that they have a moral right to filter, and to censor inappropriate content ????</div>
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<div>What is this "rights-based values and principles for internet governance" any way? Define rights, principles and then enact laws according to the agreed values and principles ???</div>
<div><br clear="all">Sivasubramanian Muthusamy<br>India.<br><br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lisa Horner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lisa@global-partners.co.uk" target="_blank">lisa@global-partners.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">Hi Divina and all</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">Just a quick note to say that I intend to submit a workshop proposal on "rights and the internet" issues, focussing on the approach of building discussion and agreement around rights-based values and principles for internet governance. I'm doing some work on this this year in association with other groups, and the workshop would be a way of feeding back on progress and continuing the debate from last year's 'mainstreaming rights' workshop. Thoughts/comments/collaboration welcome!</font></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">Thanks,</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">Lisa Horner</font></div></div>
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<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> Divina MEIGS [mailto:<a href="mailto:divina.meigs@orange.fr" target="_blank">divina.meigs@orange.fr</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> Wed 25/03/2009 08:46<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Muehlberg, Annette; <a href="mailto:pimienta@funredes.org" target="_blank">pimienta@funredes.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: On the process of proposing workshop themes<br></font><br></div>
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<div><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:12px"><br>Dear all<br><br>I agree very much on Milton’s rationale for putting up themes (as stated below) because they seem essential even though one is not in the best position to organize them.<br>
<br>I’ll suggest three, picking up on my memory from past exchanges, and because they haven’t re-emerged:<br> 1) the future of <b>labour </b>in internet governance. That’s a theme that hasn’t emerged and yet it is central to policy-making, not to mention to labour itself. There are different scenarii around cognitive capitalism, individual entrepreneurship, labor value vs. knowledge value... And it is especially timely with the current crisis... But i am not an economist and i am not a trade unionist....<br>
<br> 2) the internet <b>rights</b> or a human rights based internet issue... That remains undecided and in spite of much discussion it seems to have disappeared...<br><br> 3) media and information l<b>iteracy</b>/education in the information society is one close to my heart. It is urgent to propose and develop global policies on the theme, in connection with intellectual property rights, but also open educational ressources on line, the future of universities, sustainable development....<br>
<br>Hoping some of you will continue the thread,...<br><br>Divina Frau-Meigs<br><br>Le 24/03/09 21:44, « Milton L Mueller » <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>> a écrit :<br><br></span></font>
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<blockquote><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:12px">the proposal to call for expressions of interest on themes rather than full-fledged workshop proposals at that stage (they will naturally come later). It has the benefit of sensing the level of interest on various themes but also allows people who do not intend to organize a workshop themselves to indicate that they think a specific topic should be addressed. This is what I did last year by putting an early placeholder in favor of a workshop on "dimensions of cybersecurity" while indicating that I did not intend to organize it myself. </span></font><span style="font-size:12px"><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial"><br>
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