[governance] The dawning of Internet censorship in Germany

Wed Jun 17 22:14:20 EDT 2009

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 8:29 PM, David Goldstein <
goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> Unfortunately a few fools don't really see the problem here.
>
> Child porn is a serious problem and restricting access to it is not about
> protecting children directly, it's about stopping paedophiles from accessing
> child porn. Children may benefit by stopping abuse.
>

Does not work.  If you want to protect children you legislate them off the
Internet.   There are a lot of predators looking for kids to play with.  If
those kids are off the network the abuse ends.

Predators would be forced to use old fashioned methods of find children.
Like coaching sports teams - etc.

Also stopping pedophiles from accessing child porn online DOES NOT protect
children.  It protects no one.  And the child porn continues to be
available.  It's impossible to get rid of it.

Now with children producing their own porn the availability just goes up.

The only thing this whole child porn crusade does do is waste my tax dollars
and accomplish absolutely nothing in the process.

> To use the argument that blocking child pornography is ineffective is
> nonsensical. People still speed in cars yet there are laws against speeding.
> It certainly changes behaviour though.
>

Sure - pass all the laws you want - but don't expect them to work.  Child
porn is here to stay.  And again I remind you of that very difficult truth
that most child porn these days is produced by children.

Are you asleep Goldstein.  Most people are completely unaware of what is
happening these days.  And most of those people are parents.

>
> However given the childish arguments put forward by people like Dambier, I
> wouldn't expect there to be much knowledge on such issues.
>

Dambier has a valid point.

>
>
> The issue is how far does such a list such as proposed by the German
> government, and also the Australian government, go. If it's used to block
> content such as child porn, great. If it goes further, then it's a problem.
>

Like I said - most people are asleep and you are no exception to that rule
making a statement like you have above.  All filter lists to date have been
shown to be useless - they don't as a rule block content - and in many cases
the content blocked are legitimate site - like the American Medical
Association - I think that one end up on the aussi list.

>
>
> Of course, other uninformed and nonsenical arguments such as put forward by
> Baptista that "If you want to protect children - legislate them off the
> Internet" are pathetic.
>

Common sense many time is presented as nonsensical argument.  However it is
a fact that if you want to guarantee your children are protected from
pornography and predators removing the Internet from their lives works very
well.  It's guaranteed results.

>
>
> I'd love to know where Baptista's evidence is that the amount of child porn
> being produced is on the decline. How would you know?
>

I've been a system administrator since the Internet was started.  I once
consulted and helped a major police agency in Canada investigate child porn
trafficking.  So you might say I have some expertise on the subject and have
kept in touch with those who investigate it over the years.

Now I don't think I said child porn is on the decline.  Like all commodities
it goes up in volumn yearly.  The rate of production of child porn is going
up and it is mainly driven by perverted children who produce their own child
porn and make it available by various means to each other and the world.

Oh well, I guess expecting an understanding of the issues involved is just
> too much to be expected by those who have previously contributed to the
> debate.
>

David - I really don't think you know what your talking about.  It's simple
math.  You want to protect a child from sexual exposure - keep them out of
the whore house.  It's common sense.

regards
joe baptista

>
>
> David
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Joe Baptista <baptista at publicroot.org>
> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sylvia Caras <sylvia.caras at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, 18 June, 2009 10:14:10 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] The dawning of Internet censorship in Germany
>
> Filters and children equals Bullshit.
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Sylvia Caras <sylvia.caras at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I send an alert about this to a colleague of mine who does human
>> rights advocacy in Germany.  Her reply very strongly supports the
>> filter, that protecting children from abuse trumps any other
>> interests.
>
>
> Filters don't protect children from abuse.  Thats a nonsense argument.  If
> you want to protect children - legislate them off the Internet.
>
> I personally think no child should have access to the Internet until they
> are 18 and older.  If they have to be 18 or older to see a dirty movie in a
> theater then the same should apply to the Internet - the biggest access
> point on the planet for fine filth and quality porn.
>
> This whole child porn thing is eventually going to blow up in our faces.
> People who make pornos about children are on the decline.  However children
> making child porn is well on the rise.  And the demand by children for child
> porn is on the rise due to the ease of distribution the Internet makes
> available to them.
>
>
>
>> I was surprised in Athens at how strong the 'save the children'
>> presence was.  I felt like one issue, information freedom, had been
>> co-opted by another, protection and that the field was not at all
>> level.
>
>
>
> Your absolutely right.  I say save the children once and for all.  No need
> for filters - which have little to do with protecting children and
> everything to do with protecting government interests.  Just pass a few laws
> to keep the little whipper snappers off the net and you solve the problem
> once an for all time.
>
> regards
> joe baptista
>
> --
> Joe Baptista
>
> www.publicroot.org
> PublicRoot Consortium
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-- 
Joe Baptista

www.publicroot.org
PublicRoot Consortium
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