[governance] IGF Review Question 6 start

Eric Dierker cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net
Sun Jul 12 00:00:45 EDT 2009


Hmm,
 
My issue is with expanding the scope to "doing good works" as opposed to creating an open forum for sound expressions of ideas for the governance of the Internet.

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:


From: Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [governance] IGF Review Question 6 start
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Michael Gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com>, "Ian Peter" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
Cc: "'Eric Dierker'" <cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net>, "'Sylvia Caras'" <sylvia.caras at gmail.com>, "'Ginger Paque'" <gpaque at gmail.com>, "Milton L Mueller" <mueller at syr.edu>, "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette at wzb.eu>
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 1:27 AM


Michael and all,

  Aptly and rightly ask?  Perhaps there will be an answer from
our fellow user and "Dotcommoner", Eric. ??  My guess is however,
that the "We" is ALL users and future users.  I hope that my guess
was what Eric meant by "We".

  This said and ask, let me further digress on Eric's other utterances.
I and all of our members amongst many others, perhaps a majority
believe that international "do gooders" are not only welcome, but
very beneficial as they, myself included, seek to do good works for
all and by all.  To seek otherwise is of course inherently wrong
headed and fundamentally harmful as well as far less then useful
or helpful.  The key is what is or defines "Good works" and what
only benifits a few.

Michael Gurstein wrote:

>  Who is "we"...M
>
>      -----Original Message-----
>      From: Eric Dierker [mailto:cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net]
>      Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:04 AM
>      To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein; 'Sylvia
>      Caras'; 'Ginger Paque'
>      Subject: RE: [governance] IGF Review Question 6 start
>
>
       Very insghtful (incitefull) and humrous.  But yes governance is
       only for those who are governed.  I do not think we call this
       freedomance. We do not and should not create governing principles
       or principals and then go out and see who we can catch in our
       net. Somehow international do gooders constantly interlope into
       what is basically intended as a system of setting up norms and
       co-opt them into international aid programs in order to garner
       publicity and further other agendas.  To be governed is to be
       restricted. We do not need to restrict activity of extremely poor
       people. We need to govern activity of those in power.

       --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:


            From: Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
            Subject: RE: [governance] IGF Review Question 6 start
            To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "'Eric Dierker'"
            <cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net>, "'Sylvia Caras'"
            <sylvia.caras at gmail.com>, "'Ginger Paque'"
            <gpaque at gmail.com>
            Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 11:50 AM

            Hmmm... so governance is just for the governors...
            Interesting concept... Not sure what you do with the
            notions of democracy and citizenship built up over the
            last 1000 years or so, but maybe governance of the
            Internet is a special case...M

                 -----Original Message-----
                 From: Eric Dierker
                 [mailto:cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net]
                 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:35 AM
                 To: Sylvia Caras; governance at lists.cpsr.org;
                 Ginger Paque
                 Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org
                 Subject: Re: [governance] IGF Review Question
                 6 start


                 Yes indeed.  Leave the below out of any
                 suggestions.  Great for goals and
                 cheerleading but very destructive to building
                 foundations.  People must get the fact that
                 caring for the needy via the internet is not
                 grassroots, it is empathy, not work limiting
                 accomodation. At best teh below approach will
                 lead us to form general policy based on
                 isolated non-representative experience and at
                 norm lead us moribound into more worry about
                 an individual or inclusiveness than results.
                 "Governance" is not the idea of developing,
                 it is the idea of working with what we have,
                 or what comes into it, not what will make us
                 feel good. In short - you do not form a
                 governance model and then say "Now let us go
                 out and find folks to govern".  Townhall
                 meeting concepts are for pr and politics.

                 --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Ginger Paque
                 <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:

                      Sylvia and Erik, thanks for your
                      comments.

                      Erik, did you have any specific
                      requests, or just positive feedback
                      for Jeremy's addition? If there was
                      a change implied, I did not get it.



                      And here we include for example,
                      Indigenous peoples worldwide,
                      people with disabilities, rural
                      people and particularly those who
                      are the poorest of the poor and
                      often landless or migrants, those
                      concerned with promoting peer to
                      peer and open access governance
                      structures built on an electronic
                      platform, those looking to
                      alternative modes of Internet
                      governance as ways of responding to
                      specific localized opportunities
                      and limitations, and those working
                      as practitioners and activists in
                      implementing the Internet as a
                      primary resource in support of
                      broad based economic and social
                      development.

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Regards,

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