<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Hmm,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My issue is with expanding the scope to "doing good works" as opposed to creating an open forum for sound expressions of ideas for the governance of the Internet.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 7/11/09, Jeffrey A. Williams <I><jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com><BR>Subject: Re: [governance] IGF Review Question 6 start<BR>To: governance@lists.cpsr.org, "Michael Gurstein" <gurstein@gmail.com>, "Ian Peter" <ian.peter@ianpeter.com><BR>Cc: "'Eric Dierker'" <cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net>, "'Sylvia Caras'" <sylvia.caras@gmail.com>, "'Ginger Paque'" <gpaque@gmail.com>, "Milton L Mueller" <mueller@syr.edu>, "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette@wzb.eu><BR>Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 1:27 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>Michael and all,<BR><BR> Aptly and rightly ask? Perhaps there will be an answer from<BR>our fellow user and "Dotcommoner", Eric. ?? My guess is however,<BR>that the "We" is ALL users and future users. I hope that my guess<BR>was what Eric meant by "We".<BR><BR> This said and ask, let me further digress on Eric's other utterances.<BR>I and all of our members amongst many others, perhaps a majority<BR>believe that international "do gooders" are not only welcome, but<BR>very beneficial as they, myself included, seek to do good works for<BR>all and by all. To seek otherwise is of course inherently wrong<BR>headed and fundamentally harmful as well as far less then useful<BR>or helpful. The key is what is or defines "Good works" and what<BR>only benifits a few.<BR><BR>Michael Gurstein wrote:<BR><BR>> Who is "we"...M<BR>><BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From: Eric Dierker [mailto:<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net" ymailto="mailto:cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net">cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net</A>]<BR>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:04 AM<BR>> To: <A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</A>; Michael Gurstein; 'Sylvia<BR>> Caras'; 'Ginger Paque'<BR>> Subject: RE: [governance] IGF Review Question 6 start<BR>><BR>><BR> Very insghtful (incitefull) and humrous. But yes governance is<BR> only for those who are governed. I do not think we call this<BR> freedomance. We do not and should not create governing
principles<BR> or principals and then go out and see who we can catch in our<BR> net. Somehow international do gooders constantly interlope into<BR> what is basically intended as a system of setting up norms and<BR> co-opt them into international aid programs in order to garner<BR> publicity and further other agendas. To be governed is to be<BR> restricted. We do not need to restrict activity of extremely poor<BR> people. We need to govern activity of those in power.<BR><BR> --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Michael Gurstein <<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gurstein@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR><BR>
From: Michael Gurstein <<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gurstein@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</A>><BR> Subject: RE: [governance] IGF Review Question 6 start<BR> To: <A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</A>, "'Eric Dierker'"<BR> <<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net" ymailto="mailto:cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net">cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net</A>>, "'Sylvia Caras'"<BR> <<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sylvia.caras@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:sylvia.caras@gmail.com">sylvia.caras@gmail.com</A>>, "'Ginger Paque'"<BR>
<<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gpaque@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">gpaque@gmail.com</A>><BR> Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 11:50 AM<BR><BR> Hmmm... so governance is just for the governors...<BR> Interesting concept... Not sure what you do with the<BR> notions of democracy and citizenship built up over the<BR> last 1000 years or so, but maybe governance of the<BR> Internet is a special case...M<BR><BR> -----Original Message-----<BR> From: Eric Dierker<BR>
[mailto:<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net" ymailto="mailto:cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net">cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net</A>]<BR> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:35 AM<BR> To: Sylvia Caras; <A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</A>;<BR> Ginger Paque<BR> Cc: <A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</A><BR> Subject: Re: [governance] IGF Review
Question<BR> 6 start<BR><BR><BR> Yes indeed. Leave the below out of any<BR> suggestions. Great for goals and<BR> cheerleading but very destructive to building<BR> foundations. People must get the fact that<BR> caring for the needy via the internet is not<BR> grassroots, it is empathy, not work limiting<BR> accomodation. At best teh below approach will<BR>
lead us to form general policy based on<BR> isolated non-representative experience and at<BR> norm lead us moribound into more worry about<BR> an individual or inclusiveness than results.<BR> "Governance" is not the idea of developing,<BR> it is the idea of working with what we have,<BR> or what comes into it, not what will make us<BR> feel good. In short - you do not form a<BR> governance model and then say "Now let
us go<BR> out and find folks to govern". Townhall<BR> meeting concepts are for pr and politics.<BR><BR> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Ginger Paque<BR> <<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gpaque@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">gpaque@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR> Sylvia and Erik, thanks for your<BR> comments.<BR><BR> Erik, did you have any specific<BR> requests,
or just positive feedback<BR> for Jeremy's addition? If there was<BR> a change implied, I did not get it.<BR><BR><BR><BR> And here we include for example,<BR> Indigenous peoples worldwide,<BR> people with disabilities, rural<BR> people and particularly those who<BR> are the poorest of the poor and<BR> often landless or migrants, those<BR>
concerned with promoting peer to<BR> peer and open access governance<BR> structures built on an electronic<BR> platform, those looking to<BR> alternative modes of Internet<BR> governance as ways of responding to<BR> specific localized opportunities<BR> and limitations, and those working<BR> as
practitioners and activists in<BR> implementing the Internet as a<BR> primary resource in support of<BR> broad based economic and social<BR> development.<BR><BR> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR> ____________________________________________________________<BR><BR> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<BR> <A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org"
ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</A><BR> To be removed from the list, send any message to:<BR> <A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</A><BR><BR> For all list information and functions, see:<BR> <A href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target=_blank>http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</A><BR><BR>><BR>> ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> ____________________________________________________________<BR>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<BR>>
<A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</A><BR>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:<BR>> <A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</A><BR>><BR>> For all list information and functions, see:<BR>> <A href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target=_blank>http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</A><BR>><BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!)<BR>"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -<BR> Abraham Lincoln<BR>"YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama<BR><BR>"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is<BR>very often the
accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt<BR><BR>"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;<BR>liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by<BR>P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."<BR>United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]<BR>===============================================================<BR>Updated 1/26/04<BR>CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.<BR>div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC.<BR>ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail<BR><A href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com" ymailto="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com">jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</A><BR>My Phone: 214-244-4827<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>