[Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal - Internationalisation of

Thu Apr 16 00:13:25 EDT 2009

Bill, Thanks for your comments. No it is never too late. In any case we 
are hardly in a position to submit these proposals on IGC's behalf 
without some kind of discussion on them.

 >The title, "Democratic internationalization of IG," would seem to 
suggest that some mechanisms of IG are not at present sufficiently 
democratic, ergo we're >advocating DI.

Democratic above clearly refers to the process of internationalization, 
to  put in a caveat  for those who  easy  conflate  internationalism 
just with inter-country arrangements. To that extent, it is beside the 
point that I really do think that the present arrangements  are not 
democratic enough.  Were they democratic, why would we want to seek any 
change/ evolution at all.  Isnt  making all political decision making 
democratic our basic political objective. As pointed out in an email to 
Milton, democratic is always meant in its nuanced evolutionary meanings  
- of constitutionalism, rights, minority protection, civil society 
participation for deepening democracy etc etc.

I am unable to understand why the term multistakeholderism as a form of 
governance, with  all its deep structural problems and with almost no 
historical and philosophical/ political theoretical examination of the 
concept, can be used so unproblematically, while use of the 
richly-historical term 'democratic' needs to present so many defenses.

 >Wouldn't it be helpful for us to specify which mechanisms we are 
talking about rather than leaving it abstract, and what exactly 
democratic would mean in these >contexts?

If we accept that US's unilateral political control on a lot of aspects 
of IG, and that of rich country clubs on many other aspects, is not 
democratic and fair, and therefore not acceptable, about which there is 
a strong sentiment that is propelling the internationalisation debate, 
we will need to come up with institutional alternatives. Our desire to 
look for them depends on the strength of our belief and conviction in 
the above regard. But if I do have to suggest  some models, models 1, 3 
and 4 suggested by WGIG are not a bad place to start from. Does IGF have 
a role, as suggested by a recent position paper of the IGP? Anything, as 
long as we are sure that the point where we are is not acceptable.

However, if you wish we give a greater clarity about the mechanisms we 
are talking about, i will like to hear your formulation of them.

Parminder

William Drake wrote:
> Hi Parminder,
>
> Late to the party, I recognize there's been back and forth on this, 
> but would just like to interject a small suggestion.
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 5:06 AM, Parminder wrote:
>>
>> As the Internet becomes a key factor of reorganizing our social 
>> structures, and doing so at a global level as never before, 
>> democratic global governance of the Internet is a pressing 
>> imperative. Its present governance structures grew out of certain 
>> historical contexts, as well as of some new socio-political realities 
>> around the Internet. In the context of rapid changes that the 
>> Internet has wrought, the key and emerging issues related to its 
>> governance, and the correspondingly legitimate governance 
>> arrangements, could not have been anticipated by anyone. One thing 
>> however is clear by now; the Internet is not just a technical 
>> artifact, requiring technical governance with regard to keeping it 
>> running smoothly, but a key socio-political phenomenon requiring 
>> participative political governance by all people of the world, who 
>> are all implicated.  However, the direction we move in from here 
>> depends on where we stand. It is important to analyze the needs of 
>> evolution and internationalization of IG from these dual standpoints.
>>
>
> On Apr 14, 2009, at 3:48 PM, Parminder wrote:
>>
>>
>> Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>> There is another, deeper problem with Parminder's formulation. When 
>>> we talk about "participative political governance" we need to 
>>> explicitly recognize that "democratic" governance must always take 
>>> place within a framework of protected rights of individuals. 
>>> Majorities can be as oppressive as unaccountable tyrants, we all 
>>> know. So while I prefer Parminder's reference to "participative 
>>> political governance by all people of the world" to vague references 
>>> to "multistakeholderism" I think that will sound threatening to many 
>>> people unless we also make it clear that such governance is limited 
>>> and contained by rights and freedoms _from_ governance in the 
>>> appropriate areas.
>>
>> I very much agree with the substance of your posting. However, when I 
>> mention 'democratic' in the title itself i think it obviously 
>> includes the nunace and evovled meaning of democracy as generaly 
>> understood - which included constitutionalism (that is why we 
>> advocate for adopting Internet rights and principles), human rights, 
>> structured participation etc - it is not about simple tyranny of numbers.
>
> The title, "Democratic internationalization of IG," would seem to 
> suggest that some mechanisms of IG are not at present sufficiently 
> democratic, ergo we're advocating DI.  Wouldn't it be helpful for us 
> to specify which mechanisms we are talking about rather than leaving 
> it abstract, and what exactly democratic would mean in these contexts? 
>  The latter is of course quite a conundrum in all discussions of 
> global governance; the WSIS principles' invocation of the term is 
> hardly a source of philosophical clarity (at the time the background 
> concern was to increase the role of the ITU, which sort of conflated 
> multilateralism with democratic); the WGIG couldn't figure this out 
> and gave up; and not everyone would necessarily understand the term as 
> you define it above.
>
> Can we be more precise on what we would all be contending with this 
> proposal?
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
>
> ***********************************************************
> William J. Drake  
> Senior Associate
> Centre for International Governance
> Graduate Institute of International and
>   Development Studies
> Geneva, Switzerland
> william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch 
> <mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch>
> New book: /Governing Global Electronic Networks,/
> http://tinyurl.com/5mh9jj
> ***********************************************************
>
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