<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Bill, Thanks for your
comments. No it is never too late. In any case we are hardly in a
position to submit these proposals on IGC's behalf without some kind of
discussion on them.<br>
<br>
></font>The title, "Democratic internationalization of IG," would
seem to
suggest that some mechanisms of IG are not at present sufficiently
democratic, ergo we're >advocating DI.<br>
<br>
Democratic above clearly refers to the process of internationalization,
to put in a caveat for those who easy conflate internationalism
just with inter-country arrangements. To that extent, it is beside the
point that I really do think that the present arrangements are not
democratic enough. Were they democratic, why would we want to seek any
change/ evolution at all. Isnt making all political decision making
democratic our basic political objective. As pointed out in an email to
Milton, democratic is always meant in its nuanced evolutionary
meanings - of constitutionalism, rights, minority protection, civil
society participation for deepening democracy etc etc. <br>
<br>
I am unable to understand why the term multistakeholderism as a form of
governance, with all its deep structural problems and with almost no
historical and philosophical/ political theoretical examination of the
concept, can be used so unproblematically, while use of the
richly-historical term 'democratic' needs to present so many defenses. <br>
<br>
>Wouldn't it be helpful for us to specify which mechanisms we are
talking about rather than leaving it abstract, and what exactly
democratic would mean in these >contexts?<br>
<br>
If we accept that US's unilateral political control on a lot of aspects
of IG, and that of rich country clubs on many other aspects, is not
democratic and fair, and therefore not acceptable, about which there is
a strong sentiment that is propelling the internationalisation debate,
we will need to come up with institutional alternatives. Our desire to
look for them depends on the strength of our belief and conviction in
the above regard. But if I do have to suggest some models, models 1, 3
and 4 suggested by WGIG are not a bad place to start from. Does IGF
have a role, as suggested by a recent position paper of the IGP?
Anything, as long as we are sure that the point where we are is not
acceptable. <br>
<br>
However, if you wish we give a greater clarity about the mechanisms we
are talking about, i will like to hear your formulation of them. <br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
</font><br>
William Drake wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:3AB00D1D-7BD5-487C-AE7E-194BFDD1B7B9@graduateinstitute.ch"
type="cite">Hi Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Late to the party, I recognize there's been back and forth on
this, but would just like to interject a small suggestion.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 13, 2009, at 5:06 AM, Parminder wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<p class="MsoNormal">As the Internet becomes a key factor of
reorganizing our social structures, and doing so at a global level as
never before, democratic global governance of the Internet is a
pressing imperative. Its present governance structures grew out of
certain historical contexts, as well as of some new socio-political
realities around the Internet. In the context of rapid changes that the
Internet has wrought, the key and emerging issues related to its
governance, and the correspondingly legitimate governance arrangements,
could not have been anticipated by anyone. One thing however is clear
by now; the Internet is not just a technical artifact, requiring
technical governance with regard to keeping it running smoothly, but a
key socio-political phenomenon requiring participative political
governance by all people of the world, who are all implicated.<span
style=""> </span>However, the direction we move in from here depends
on where we stand. It is important to analyze the needs of evolution
and internationalization of IG from these dual standpoints.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
On Apr 14, 2009, at 3:48 PM, Parminder wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><br>
<br>
Milton L Mueller wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D7705BAD7E@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="092225013-13042009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">There is another, deeper problem
with Parminder's formulation. When we talk about "participative
political governance" we need to explicitly recognize that "democratic"
governance must always take place within a framework of protected
rights of individuals. Majorities can be as oppressive as unaccountable
tyrants, we all know. So while I prefer Parminder's reference to
"participative political governance by all people of the world" to
vague references to "multistakeholderism" I think that will sound
threatening to many people unless we also make it clear that such
governance is limited and contained by rights and freedoms _from_
governance in the appropriate areas.</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I very much agree with the substance of your posting. However, when I
mention 'democratic' in the title itself i think it obviously includes
the nunace and evovled meaning of democracy as generaly understood -
which included constitutionalism (that is why we advocate for adopting
Internet rights and principles), human rights, structured participation
etc - it is not about simple tyranny of numbers.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>The title, "Democratic internationalization of IG," would seem
to suggest that some mechanisms of IG are not at present sufficiently
democratic, ergo we're advocating DI. Wouldn't it be helpful for us to
specify which mechanisms we are talking about rather than leaving it
abstract, and what exactly democratic would mean in these contexts?
The latter is of course quite a conundrum in all discussions of global
governance; the WSIS principles' invocation of the term is hardly a
source of philosophical clarity (at the time the background concern was
to increase the role of the ITU, which sort of conflated
multilateralism with democratic); the WGIG couldn't figure this out and
gave up; and not everyone would necessarily understand the term as you
define it above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can we be more precise on what we would all be contending with
this proposal?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;">
<div style=""><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;">
<div>
<div style="">
<div>
<div style="">
<div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">***********************************************************</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">William J. Drake </div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Senior Associate</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Centre for International Governance</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Graduate Institute of International and</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"> Development Studies</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Geneva, Switzerland</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">
<div style="margin: 0px;">New book: <i>Governing Global Electronic
Networks,</i></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tinyurl.com/5mh9jj">http://tinyurl.com/5mh9jj</a></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">***********************************************************</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span></div>
</span> </div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>